[BW2] Ubers Sand Veil + Snow Cloak Discussion

Discussion in 'Gen 5 Ubers' started by Professor Oak, Jan 7, 2013.

  1. Professor Oak

    Professor Oak same Forum Administrator Server Owner Social Media Rep Forum Administrator Server Owner Social Media Rep

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    Professor Oak
    To put it as simply as possible:

    What is your opinion on Sand Veil + Snow Cloak in Ubers? Explain your opinions please - this may affect the Wifi Ubers and No Preview Ubers tiers.

    Any posts made by persons without considerable Ubers experience, as well as very poor posts, will result in infractions.
     
  2. T-Dogg

    T-Dogg Member

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    Snow Cloak is pretty much non-existent in Ubers (both due to a lack of good Snow Cloak users and Abomasnow being bad) and so really isn't worth discussing.

    Sand Veil only exists on Garchomp. Whist both Tyranitar and Garchomp are very viable, neither are exactly common. Furthermore the dominance of two other very good weather inducers in the tier makes it extremely hard to keep sand up. I'd say it's not much of an issue and so isn't really worth doing anything about.

    Having said that, I'm happy if Sand Veil and Snow Cloak are placed under the evasion clause (as I have said in other threads). The effect it will have on the Ubers tier will be miniscule. Garchomp becoming ever so slightly weaker in Ubers shouldn't affect your decision, particuarly if it is easier and more logical to plonk these abilities under the evasion clause.
     
  3. -Manaphy--

    -Manaphy-- Overconsumption

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    Due to the extreme prevalence of Kyogre and Groudon, Sand Veil and Snow Cloak will usually not have a chance to ever reliably abuse it's ability without the weather constantly shifting. The abusers are all generally outclassed too, with the only viable one being Garchomp and Garchomp itself is very iffy in Ubers with Groudon, Steels and Scarfed Ubers being prevalent. It's not broken.

    However, I also agree with T-Dogg that having them under the Evasion Clause isn't a bad thing. In the long run it doesn't really affect anything.
     
  4. DSM01

    DSM01 Jammin' out

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    While I agree that the presence or absence of Sand Veil/Snow Cloak will have little to no effect on the Ubers metagame, I think that this very reason is why we should keep these abilities (thereby making evasion a ban, not a clause). Garchomp is pretty underwhelming in Ubers and its only real niche is on a sand team. Removing its one redeeming quality (Sand Veil) would discourage its already low usage, thus reducing diversity in the metagame. Giving sand and hail even the tiniest of buffs can only have positive effects in a Kyogre- and Groudon-infested metagame, so I say throw Chomp a bone and keep Sand Veil.
     
  5. T-Dogg

    T-Dogg Member

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    I think you underrate Garchomps usefulness. 102 speed, great STAB's and a decent attack makes a pretty good Pokemon. Saying that Sand Veil is its 'one redeeming quality' or that 'its only real niche is on a sand team' is blatantly false. I'd predict that putting these abilities under the evasion clause wouldn't affect Garchomps usage in Ubers at all, it's not really something to be concerned about.
     
  6. -Manaphy--

    -Manaphy-- Overconsumption

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    Garchomp's definitely got some use in Ubers, albeit very limited and usually outclassed.

    Speaking of this ban, I'm going to go ahead and say No to the ban under the mentality that we shouldn't ban unless we absolutely have to.
     
  7. two sides of one coin

    two sides of one coin sick of all her shit

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    I don't think it is necessary, DSM01 makes a good point. Why reduce creativity even further in an Extremekiller infested tier?