[BW2] Cool Stuff to use in OU

Discussion in 'Past Gens Discussion' started by Halsey, Jan 1, 2013.

  1. The Tempest

    The Tempest Banned

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    The Tempest
    I've used a similar set, except it used Techno Blast and a Douse Drive instead of HP Water. Shame this thing's been banned really... they should just have banned scarfed versions which were all you saw...
     
  2. danria

    danria Dareban and Misaka =D

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    Banning just one part of a pokemon = complex banned .... which is highly undesirable and incredibly weird.(especially when u said item + pokemon banned, thats more ridiculous than blaziken+speed boost banned)
    Thus is seem the best thing is to just ban the pokemon as whole.
    Anyway genesect was banned not becuz of scarfed (its easily the easiest set to exploit), it was banned due to the huge number of set it can run, and having no sure-counter at the same time.
     
  3. Tony Gonzalez

    Tony Gonzalez New Member

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    ^And because of the free boost thanks to download that put its already high SPatk to unreasonable levels considering the move coverage he has.

    I was always sad about the Blaziken ban. Used it all the time before speedboost was introduced, which really was the only reason it became Uber. Then again when the powers that be ban a poke we mortals can only listen :P
     
  4. Dragon.

    Dragon. Oh noes I lost my sarcasm

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    Also he scarf set didn't make it broken so wtf lol
     
  5. Spoovo The Pirate

    Spoovo The Pirate Meep! Article Contributor Article Contributor

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    Wow. No one's posted in here in ages. O.o

    Time to liven it up:

    [​IMG]

    Azumarill @ Choice Band / Leftovers
    Ability: Sap Sipper
    EVs: 208 HP / 252 Atk / 48 Spd
    Adamant nature (+Atk, -SAtk)

    -Waterfall
    -Superpower
    -Aqua Jet
    -Ice Punch

    Hello Ferrothorn counter. :D

    While it obviously packs less power than a normal Huge Power Azumarill, dat Sap Sipper boost gives it a Grass immunity, and only one weakness to Electricity. No Focus Punch because it's illegal with Sap Sipper, so this Azumarill has Superpower instead. Substitute can be used to avoid status, but only with the Leftovers (obviously), and finding a space for it is difficult.

    48 Speed EVs to speed creep Blissey, while the Attack is maxed, and the rest are in HP for some bulk. :3
     
  6. Finchinator

    Finchinator IT’S FINK DUMBASS

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    Finchinator / Finch
    Base 50 attack, not even close to worth it.

    (Keldeo) @ Expert Belt
    Trait: Justified
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    - Surf / Hydro Pump
    - Toxic
    - Hidden Power [Ice]
    - Secret Sword

    If you're not using it with Tyranitar, toxic is awful helpful.
    Lets just look at it's checks / counters: Latias, Jellicent, Rotom-W (eh), Politoed (switched in commonly), and Celebi.
    All of these are suseptable to toxic (Tentacruel isn't but, I didn't list it.)
    All of these but Celebi are crippled badly by toxic, too.
    Not really much else to say, standard Expert Belt Keldeo, otherwise.
    Sorry for no picture, cbf at 12:30 - will try remember to edit one in later.
     
  7. Finchinator

    Finchinator IT’S FINK DUMBASS

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    Finchinator / Finch
    Pardon my double posting, not like anyone has even bothered with this thread recently.
    However, with the suspects being banned, there are plenty of new possibilities, replacements, etc. for the new(ish) overused metagame!

    I've been using this in Smogon OU ever since the idea spread (not sure who came up with it first, but credit to them - not my set.)
    [​IMG] (M) @ [​IMG]
    Trait: Sturdy
    EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spd
    Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
    - Taunt
    - Spikes
    - Stealth Rock
    - Brave Bird

    The bird is the word. Custap Skarmory is basically the Deoxys-D replacement you've all been looking for.
    Not only does it get up both Stealth Rock and Spikes with nearly the same success rate and Taunt opposing hazarders / set up pokemon, but this Skarmory can also work on the attacking end.
    A few common leads are: Breloom, Politoed, and Terrakion.
    Skarmory 2hkos offensive Politoed, Terrakion, and Sashed Breloom (while OHKOing non-sashed - however, I usually elect to taunt.)
    A few other situations where this tactic is helpful is to kill yourself so their spinner cannot spin (with recoil once you're at sturdy, custap kicks in, you kill yourself with recoil, they take damage, you get switch-momentum!)
    Lastly, with the max speed and +speed, Skarmory is able to outspeed: Adamant Breloom, Adamant Dragonite, Modest Heatran, Bulky Rotom-W, Bulky Landorus-T, some Politoed, Bulky Jirachi, Bulky Celebi, non-scarf Tyranitar, Bulky Ninetales, Adamant Mamoswine, and more!
    Finally, here's a log of me using a team built around Custap Skarmory (which, by the way, works well with Spinblocker Gengar, as Deoxys-D did, too) from Round 1 of Smogon tour about thee weeks ago.
    Battle between Finchinator and OO8 the immaculate started!

    Tier: Standard OU
    Mode: Singles
    Rule: Unrated
    Rule: Sleep Clause
    Rule: Disallow Spects
    Rule: Species Clause
    Rule: Wifi Battle
    Rule: Self-KO Clause

    Your team: Skarmory / Gengar / Kyurem-B / Landorus-T / Starmie / Lucario
    Opponent's team: Kingdra / Dragonite / Haxorus / Magnezone / Mamoswine / Scizor

    Finchinator sent out Skarmory!
    OO8 the immaculate sent out Zone.com! (Magnezone)

    Start of turn 1
    Skarmory used Stealth Rock!
    Pointed stones float in the air around OO8 the immaculate's team!

    The foe's Zone.com used Substitute!
    The foe's Zone.com made a substitute!

    The foe's Zone.com restored a little HP using its Leftovers!

    Start of turn 2
    Skarmory used Spikes!
    Spikes were scattered all around the feet of OO8 the immaculate's team!

    The foe's Zone.com used Charge Beam!
    It's super effective!
    Skarmory lost 198 HP! (73% of its health)
    The foe's Zone.com's Sp. Att. rose!

    The foe's Zone.com restored a little HP using its Leftovers!

    Start of turn 3
    Skarmory used Spikes!
    Spikes were scattered all around the feet of OO8 the immaculate's team!

    The foe's Zone.com used Charge Beam!
    It's super effective!
    Skarmory lost 73 HP! (26% of its health)
    Skarmory fainted!
    The foe's Zone.com's Sp. Att. rose!

    The foe's Zone.com restored a little HP using its Leftovers!
    Finchinator sent out Starmie!

    Start of turn 4
    Starmie used Scald!
    The foe's Zone.com's substitute faded!

    The foe's Zone.com used Thunderbolt!
    It's super effective!
    Starmie lost 323 HP! (100% of its health)
    Starmie fainted!

    The foe's Zone.com restored a little HP using its Leftovers!
    Finchinator sent out Lucario!

    Start of turn 5
    Lucario used Close Combat!
    It's super effective!
    The foe's Zone.com lost 99% of its health!
    The foe's Zone.com fainted!
    Lucario's Defense fell!
    Lucario's Sp. Def. fell!
    Lucario is hurt by its Life Orb!

    OO8 the immaculate sent out Dragonite!
    Pointed stones dug into the foe's Dragonite!

    Start of turn 6
    Finchinator called Lucario back!
    Finchinator sent out Landorus-T!

    Landorus-T intimidates the foe's Dragonite!
    The foe's Dragonite's Attack fell!
    The foe's Dragonite used Aqua Tail!
    It's super effective!
    A critical Hit!
    Landorus-T lost 319 HP! (100% of its health)
    Landorus-T fainted!

    Finchinator sent out Kyurem-B!

    Kyurem-B has Teravolt!

    Start of turn 7
    OO8 the immaculate called Dragonite back!
    OO8 the immaculate sent out Scizor!
    Pointed stones dug into the foe's Scizor!
    The foe's Scizor is hurt by spikes!

    Kyurem-B used Dragon Claw!
    It's not very effective...
    The foe's Scizor lost 45% of its health!
    Kyurem-B is hurt by its Life Orb!

    Start of turn 8
    The foe's Scizor used Bullet Punch!
    It's super effective!
    Kyurem-B lost 365 HP! (90% of its health)
    Kyurem-B fainted!

    Finchinator sent out Lucario!

    Start of turn 9
    The foe's Scizor used Bullet Punch!
    It's not very effective...
    Lucario lost 112 HP! (39% of its health)

    Lucario used Swords Dance!
    Lucario's Attack sharply rose!

    Start of turn 10
    Lucario used ExtremeSpeed!
    It's not very effective...
    The foe's Scizor lost 25% of its health!
    The foe's Scizor fainted!
    Lucario is hurt by its Life Orb!

    OO8 the immaculate sent out Mamoswine!
    Pointed stones dug into the foe's Mamoswine!
    The foe's Mamoswine is hurt by spikes!

    Start of turn 11
    Lucario used ExtremeSpeed!
    The foe's Mamoswine lost 70% of its health!
    The foe's Mamoswine fainted!
    Lucario is hurt by its Life Orb!

    OO8 the immaculate sent out Haxorus!
    Pointed stones dug into the foe's Haxorus!
    The foe's Haxorus is hurt by spikes!

    The foe's Haxorus has Mold Breaker!

    Start of turn 12
    Lucario used ExtremeSpeed!
    The foe's Haxorus lost 71% of its health!
    The foe's Haxorus fainted!
    Lucario is hurt by its Life Orb!

    OO8 the immaculate sent out Kingdra!
    Pointed stones dug into the foe's Kingdra!
    The foe's Kingdra is hurt by spikes!

    Start of turn 13
    Lucario used ExtremeSpeed!
    The foe's Kingdra lost 71% of its health!
    The foe's Kingdra fainted!
    OO8 the immaculate: gg
    Lucario is hurt by its Life Orb!

    OO8 the immaculate sent out Dragonite!
    Finchinator: Good game.
    Pointed stones dug into the foe's Dragonite!

    Finchinator: I like the CB Aqua Tail Dragonite, btw
    Finchinator: XD

    Start of turn 14
    Lucario used ExtremeSpeed!
    The foe's Dragonite lost 50% of its health!
    The foe's Dragonite fainted!
    Lucario is hurt by its Life Orb!

    Edit: 1666 post O_o
     
  8. Hobbes2

    Hobbes2 Aren't I dead or something

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    Hobbes2
    That's a great set, however brave bird loses your sturdy making you fall to poli assuming you opt to go that route (which is what you seem to suggest)

    Also don't forget to add in the 4 HP evs
     
  9. Finchinator

    Finchinator IT’S FINK DUMBASS

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    Finchinator / Finch
    No, I just set that as an example (a bad one.)
    I always get up SR and Spikes vs Poli, before taunting / Brave Birding.
    The 4 EVs in HP won't help much, I want to get in Custap range. Therefore, bulk isn't wanted.
     
  10. Liarliarpantsonfire

    Liarliarpantsonfire Member

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    [​IMG]
    (Landorus) (M) @ Yache Berry
    Trait: Sand Force
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
    Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
    - Earthquake
    - Stone Edge
    - Superpower
    - Swords Dance

    It's quite an interesting set. People expect the Special set nowadays and go into Celebi or Jellicent. This set attempts to OHKO both. Here are two calcs.

    252Atk +4 Sand Force Landorus (Neutral) Stone Edge in Sandstorm vs 252HP/0Def Celebi (Neutral): 102% - 120% (413 - 486 HP). Guaranteed OHKO.
    252Atk +2 Sand Force Landorus (Neutral) Earthquake in Sandstorm vs 252HP/252Def Leftovers Water Absorb Jellicent (+Def): 92% - 108% (372 - 438 HP). Guaranteed 2HKO. 51% chance to OHKO.

    Celebi can't even T-wave Landorus, so it's forced to hit it with Psychic/Giga Drain. This allows an extra Swords Dance and an OHKO on the next turn. Even max defense Jellicent is guaranteed to die after SR. The Yache berry helps alot actually, allowing it to kill Mamoswine without dying to Ice Shard and even surviving HP Ice from Timid Life Orb Thundurus-T at full health (doesn't happen often though :p). Superpower hits Rotom-W and will kill bulky variants after two SR switch ins (not too hard with Sandstorm nullifying lefties). Also OHKO'ing Ferrothorn at +2 is nice. This set is kinda forgotten about since it got Sheer Force but still very destructive with the right support (Celebi for Latias/Keldeo and general T-wave support, also counters Politoed and has U-turn for momentum).
     
  11. .Rawr!

    .Rawr! c(°3°)כ

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    Probably this set is gimmick, but like all things what i use are gimmick idgaf XD. Anyway, this set is pretty pro in OU and ubers (specially) and lately it won me a Clear skies tournament doh:

    Suicide golem
    [​IMG] @ Focus Sash
    Trait: No Guard
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
    Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
    - DynamicPunch
    - Ice Punch
    - Stealth Rock
    - Magic Coat

    Golurk have the advantage to be the only ghost with SR, so hazard setter and spinner blocker in 1.
    Lead golurk, SR becos good lead, magic coat becos no one see it coming, DynamicPunch becos HAX! and Ice Punch coverage (it is actually the most expendable move, it was first Fire punch but it worked bad so IP...)
     
    Last edited: May 13, 2013
  12. Finchinator

    Finchinator IT’S FINK DUMBASS

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    Finchinator / Finch
    Already posted Feraligatr here.
    Also, Brick Break is horrible in the last spot. It's either Superpower or Crunch. Crunch is only when you /need/ to hit Jellicent, Celebi, etc. and can be weak to Ferrothorn. Lum Berry isnt going to work as it's STAB attacks miss out on many kills / 2hkos. And why mention Slowking? It is rarely used in OU.

    Also, Focus Sash DD Tar isn't even viable. Stealth Rocks are up more than not, come late game, and it isn't sweeping early game unless your opponent's team is atrocious (So many things can stop it and one of them is bound to be on your team, or something to revenge it like Scarf Keldeo.)
    Dragonite, Salamence, Landorus-T, Terrakion, Gyarados, and many more Pokemon make better Physical Sweepers in OU.
     
  13. Dr. Doom

    Dr. Doom Long time hater of stall

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    Stinging in the rain version 2:

    [​IMG]

    Dragonite @ Life Orb
    Nature: Modest (+SAtk -Atk)
    Trait: Multiscale
    EV: 252 SAtk, 4 SDef, 252 Spd
    Agility
    Hurricane
    Focus Blast
    Thunder/ Surf

    Designed to be a late game cleaner. Hurricane gets STAB and gets great neutral coverage in OU. Focus Blast hits the Rock and Steel types that resist Hurricane. It 2HKOs Ferrothorn, and OHKOs Tyranitar. Thunder is recommended for Skarmory and other bulky waters. Surf gets a pseudo STAB in rain. Agility makes Dragonite outrun everything south of Scarf Latios. The downside is that you're now walled by Specially Defensive Jirachi, Defensive Rotom-W and the pink blobs. Toxicroak can take all of them down without too much trouble.
     
  14. Whatzin

    Whatzin New Member

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    [​IMG]

    Lapras @ Leftovers
    Nature : Sassy (+SDef -Spd)
    Trait : Hydration
    EV : 252 SDef, 252 ATK, 4 Def
    Curse
    Rest
    Waterfall
    Ice shard

    Functions nicely in the rain, Terrakion and Keldeo give it no shit after a few boosts, assuming neither is equipped with Scared Sword (But really, no Terrakion has Sacred Sword anymore, and I take it back for Keldeo, Sacred Sword Keldeo won't do squatt). Ice Shard over Avalanche because, although Avalanche gets 80 more power, at such low speed although a negative priorty won't really effect it, a positive priorty move proves useful, and lets not forget its massive PP, which always comes in handy. Alternatively, you could try HP evs over ATK for survivability, but I prefer the power that attack evs offer. This set works much better than the DD set imo, which is complete crap and only really gives Water Fall an advantage, as they run ice shard which is already positive priorty. Of course, this thing is walled by quite a few things, Jellicent in particular, but he's still a monster in rain with proper team support and can still tank special hits and heal them off for more frail team members.
     
  15. Finchinator

    Finchinator IT’S FINK DUMBASS

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    Finchinator / Finch
    Agility doesn't help much with the weakness to Ice Shard, SDef Rachi, other weather, and other things.
    However, I have a similar set. (Without agility and with more focus on wall(stall)breaking.

    Dragonite (M) @ Life Orb
    Trait: Multiscale
    EVs: 252 Atk / 252 SAtk / 4 SDef
    Quiet Nature (+SAtk, -Spd)
    - Superpower
    - Hurricane
    - Draco Meteor / Thunder
    - Aqua Tail / Extreemspeed / Roost

    The last few shots are all interchangeable.
    It works really well in rain (while there's Classic MixedWallbreaker Dragonite that branches off of this set, but not meant for rain - Superpower/Draco/FireBlast/(Roost or Espeed.)

    And @ the Larpas set,
    It should be Max HP / Max SDef, in my opinion.
    The SDef will help more than the extra attacks after a few boosts.
    Interesting set, though.
     
    Last edited: May 23, 2013
  16. Hannah

    Hannah Come a little closer

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    Hannah
    Xatu (M) @ Rocky Helmet
    Trait: Magic Bounce
    EVs: 252 HP / 192 Def / 64 Spd
    Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk)
    - Roost
    - Heat Wave
    - Toxic
    - U-turn


    Shedinja @ Focus Sash
    Trait: Wonder Guard
    EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spd
    Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
    - Hone Claws
    - Baton Pass
    - Sunny Day
    - Shadow Sneak

    Sunny day can be used to neutralize Sandstorm/Hail or turn an enemies Rain into Sun, harming Toxicroak and getting Toed to switch in. Scarf sets never run coverage on Shedinja and utility sets get walled by Xatu if he goes for the Toxic.


    and some other fillers. I've been trying these two out for a while and their synergy is amazing. I added in Gastrodon and Mienshao as partners since Scarfed Mienshao with Reckless really appreciates the Hone Claws boost.
     
  17. Spoovo The Pirate

    Spoovo The Pirate Meep! Article Contributor Article Contributor

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    I second that Lapras set. I came across one just like that (...I think), and via a fair amount of poor play on my side, the thing managed to set itself to +4 or something, then destroy. But then again, I'm not great at OU... ._.
     
  18. Poli

    Poli Member

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    [​IMG]
    Moltres @ Life Orb
    Trait: Pressure
    EVs: 32 Def / 252 SAtk / 224 Spd
    Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
    - Agility
    - Fire Blast
    - Hurricane
    - Hidden Power [Water]

    252 + Atk Choice Band Scizor Quick Attack vs 0 HP/32 Def Moltres: 35,2% - 41,74%
    252 + Atk Choice Band Scizor Bullet Punch vs 0 HP/32 Def Moltres: 26,17% - 31,15%
    252 + Atk Choice Band Mamoswine Ice Shard vs 0 HP/32 Def Moltres: 35,51% - 42,06%
    252 + Atk Life Orb Lucario ExtremeSpeed vs 0 HP/32 Def Moltres: 36,76% - 43,3%
    252 + Atk Choice Band Dragonite ExtremeSpeed vs 0 HP/32 Def Moltres: 48,29% - 57,01%
    252 SpAtk Life Orb Landorus Focus Blast vs 0 HP/0 SpDef Moltres: 36,14% - 42,68%

    Moltres can easily set up on Scizor, Ferrothorn (it only fears Twave or Seed, but Thorn should fear Fire Blast more) and Special Landorus!
    At +2 it is faster than everything below Scarf Starmie and yes it can OHKO it with Rocks support, Terrakion is OHKOd with HP Water, while ALL Ferrothorns are OHKOd with Fire Blast, so is Scizor and this is the best move vs Jirachi too, sadly it's not OHKOd.

    252 + SpAtk Life Orb Moltres Hurricane vs 252 HP/0 SpDef Starmie: 96,3% - 113,27% After entry hazards: 352 - 407 (108,64% - 125,62%)
    252 + SpAtk Life Orb Moltres Hidden Power Water vs 0 HP/0 SpDef Terrakion: 107,74% - 126,93%
    252 + SpAtk Life Orb Moltres Fire Blast vs 252 HP/252 + SpDef Ferrothorn: 102,27% - 121,02%
    252 + SpAtk Life Orb Moltres Hurricane vs 252 HP/252 + SpDef Jellicent: 47,03% - 55,2% After entry hazards: 240 - 273 (59,41% - 67,57%)

    Used it for a while in OU, Roost could be viable, same for other items (EBelt or Sharp Beak maybe, even more hazards support needed anyway!)

    P.S.: The text is the same of my RMT just because well, that's the set so...

    Idk if somebody already listed such a set, but i had fun with a Lapras with Hydration, Rest, Whirlpool, Thunder and Perish Song too :)

    [​IMG]
    Poliwrath (M) @ Splash Plate
    Trait: Swift Swim
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spd
    Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
    - Waterfall
    - Fling
    - Belly Drum
    - Brick Break

    This set may seem a bit trollish and needs probably a lot of skill (or luck) for working.
    Since Poliwrath is really slow it only chance of doing something is abusing (opposite) rain (with SS it outspeeds CS Terrakion and slower pokes), Wfall is pretty obv so is BB (yes this thing lacks any other good fighting move with regular priority) while Fling is a trick that can let you go past Poliwrath's biggest counters (Jellicent, Slowbro, maybe Celebi, Latias, etc...) but can be used only one time.

    252 + Atk Choice Band Scizor Quick Attack vs 0 HP/4 Def Poliwrath: 35,2% - 41,43%
    252 + Atk Choice Band Scizor Bullet Punch vs 0 HP/4 Def Poliwrath: 26,17% - 30,84%
    252 + Atk Choice Band Mamoswine Ice Shard vs 0 HP/4 Def Poliwrath: 17,45% - 20,56%
    252 + Atk Life Orb Lucario ExtremeSpeed vs 0 HP/4 Def Poliwrath: 36,14% - 42,37%
    252 + Atk Choice Band Dragonite ExtremeSpeed vs 0 HP/4 Def Poliwrath: 47,66% - 56,07%
    252 + Atk Dragonite ExtremeSpeed vs 0 HP/4 Def Poliwrath: 31,78% - 37,69%

    Hazards are necessary while Encore / PSong / Wish support from a dying poke let the set up easier.
    All the following calcs feat. Wfall assume Rain is up!

    252 +6 Atk Poliwrath Brick Break vs 252 HP/252 + Def Ferrothorn: 124,43% - 146,59%
    252 +6 Atk Poliwrath Fling vs 252 HP/252 + Def Jellicent: 131,19% - 154,46%
    252 +6 Atk Poliwrath Fling vs 252 HP/252 + Def Slowbro: 100,51% - 118,78%
    252 +6 Atk Splash Plate Poliwrath Waterfall vs 252 HP/252 + Def Slowbro: 60,15% - 70,81%
    252 +6 Atk Splash Plate Poliwrath Waterfall vs 252 HP/0 Def Latias: 105,49% - 124,18%
    252 +6 Atk Splash Plate Poliwrath Waterfall vs 252 HP/0 Def Starmie: 124,38% - 146,3%
    252 +6 Atk Splash Plate Poliwrath Waterfall vs 0 HP/0 Def Dragonite: 56,66% - 66,87% After entry hazards: 446 - 512 (138,08% - 158,51%)

    I hope i did all calcs right :).
     
    Last edited: May 27, 2013
  19. two sides of one coin

    two sides of one coin sick of all her shit

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    On Perishpool Lapras, is Protect not better than Thunder?
     
  20. Princess Luna

    Princess Luna Resident Pegasister

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    [​IMG]
    Rawr (Landorus-T) (M) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Intimidate
    EVs: 48 HP / 252 Atk / 208 Spd
    Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
    - Swords Dance
    - Rock Polish
    - Earthquake
    - Stone Edge

    This thing sets up on everything ever and sweeps very easily i have taken down ENTIRE TEAMS with this before. ninjask is countered by rock polish (if they get their boosts up just rock polish to more or equal their speed level and SD on the baton pass to OHKO the reciever) Nothing stops it setting up and its respectable bulk means it can take a few espeed/bullet punches before finally surrendering as well as resisting Mach Punch

    Sadly it isnt without its flaws and the odd flygon can wall it barring some kind of ridiculous +4 Stone Edge or something same for breloom but nearly everything else is fair game
     
  21. Dr. Doom

    Dr. Doom Long time hater of stall

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    Actually a +2 Earthquake will OHKO offensive Breloom after a layer of Spikes

    252Atk +2 Landorus Therian (+Atk) Earthquake vs 4HP/0Def Breloom (Neutral): 89% - 105% (234 - 276 HP). Guaranteed 2HKO. 33% chance to OHKO.
     
  22. gnaaye

    gnaaye New Member

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    [​IMG]
    Choice Specs Mew
    Mew @ Choice Specs
    Trait: Synchronize
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
    - Thunder
    - Focus Blast
    - Blizzard / Earth Power / Fire Blast / Trick
    - Blizzard / Earth Power / Fire Blast / Trick

    This is a moveset I used in my Hail teams before. Most people expect either a stallbreaker/support set or a Baton Passer when they see Mew, so this set surprises a lot of people. Mew may not have the raw power of stuff like Keldeo or Latios, but what it lacks in base stats it makes up in unpredictability, type coverage, high base power moves and the element of surprise. This Mew is best used as an anti-weather lead in Sun or Hail teams, as it flat-out OHKOs or seriously cripples every weather starter out there, giving you the edge in the game. Not many people see it coming. Have a look:

    252+ SpA Choice Specs Mew Focus Blast vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Tyranitar in sand: 480-568 (140.76 - 166.56%) -- guaranteed OHKO
    252+ SpA Choice Specs Mew Focus Blast vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Tyranitar in sand: 344-408 (85.14 - 100.99%) -- 6.25% chance to OHKO

    252+ SpA Choice Specs Mew Blizzard vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Hippowdon: 466-550 (110.95 - 130.95%) -- guaranteed OHKO
    252+ SpA Choice Specs Mew Blizzard vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Hippowdon: 316-374 (75.23 - 89.04%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

    252+ SpA Choice Specs Mew Thunder vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Politoed: 360-424 (111.8 - 131.67%) -- guaranteed OHKO
    252+ SpA Choice Specs Mew Thunder vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Politoed: 360-424 (93.75 - 110.41%) -- 62.5% chance to OHKO

    252+ SpA Choice Specs Mew Fire Blast vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Abomasnow: 576-680 (150.39 - 177.54%) -- guaranteed OHKO

    252+ SpA Choice Specs Mew Earth Power vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Ninetales: 268-316 (93.37 - 110.1%) -- 56.25% chance to OHKO
    252+ SpA Choice Specs Mew Earth Power vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Ninetales: 270-318 (77.14 - 90.85%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

    Just tweak the moveset according to your team's needs. Mew has decent bulk even when uninvested and can hit pretty hard, so this can be useful.
     
  23. Mikasa

    Mikasa The Queen

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    [InD]Mikasa
    One pokemon I love LOVE to use is Sashed Abomasnow.

    Abomasnow (M) @ Focus Sash
    Trait: Snow Warning
    EVs: 156 Atk / 244 SAtk / 108 Spd
    Mild Nature (+SAtk, -Def)
    - Blizzard
    - Ice Shard
    - Giga Drain
    - Hidden Power [Fire]

    I tend to use this set a lot on my hail HeavyOffense teams. What this set does is basically lure and eliminate an offensive threat your opponent is using. This set also prevents certain offensive threats from sweeping you if it had set up. Such threats include all of the threatening Dragons, Scizor, Terrakion, Keldeo, and much more. Earthquake can be thrown in there somewhere to bait + kill Heatran. I love this set because its interesting to see a weather starter hold a sash. In the offensive teams I have with Sashed Abomasnow, I usually don't really care about hail. Hail is just a nice bonus to screw up my opponent's weather from time to time but not needed. Its very anti-meta C:

    Careful playing is required against Tyranitar and preventing/removing hazards.

    Two versions of my teams with this set has reached 1450+ so I'd say this set works pretty well. The occasional 1v1 late-game victories I've pulled off with this set against something that would OHKO Abomasnow is extremely satisfying.

    EDIT:
    Just giving credit here: I learned of this set when I saw an old PO user called 'HOH' use this. Thanking him for inadvertently introducing me this fun as hell set to use.
     
    Last edited: Jul 4, 2013
  24. Finchinator

    Finchinator IT’S FINK DUMBASS

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    Finchinator / Finch
    [​IMG] (M) @ [​IMG]
    Trait: Drizzle
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    - Surf
    - Ice Beam
    - Hidden Power [Grass] / Focus Blast
    - Rest

    This Politoed is kind of like a lure or bluff set, I suppose. Overall, it is usually thought to be Choiced (Scarf / Specs) like most other Politoeds that are offensive. However, with Chesto Resto, it has reliable recovery that can help it survive through games and win the weather war, and bluff a choice item while being able to switch moves and abuse Water / Ice / (Grass or Fighting) coverage. With Rain being so potent in this metagame, getting a surprise HP Grass off on a Gastrodon or something, or an unexpected Focus Blast on a Tyranitar is huge. Also, the previously mentioned rest recovery is very helpful for expanding Politoed's survivability.
     
  25. Dragon.

    Dragon. Oh noes I lost my sarcasm

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    @Finchinator's Politoed: Slash Perish or Encore on FB / HP Grass so you can force switches and ultimately recover. (Perish + Rest is better than Perish + Protect, at least).

    @Finchinator's Feraligatr: You're doing it wrong. You need 176 Hp / 252 Atk / 80 Spe to outpace things like Jellicent, Skarm, Min invested Rotom-W, Min invested Heatran, most Tyranitar, Scizor, and so much more. Also, Crunch and Superpower should be equal slash, depending if you want to lure Jellicent or Ferrothorn. Both are equal viable, no "lesser extent," ok?

    Also, yeah this is the standard Gatr set. Nobody "popularized" it per say, Marth used it and then others used it and so many other players beyond him have used it like ballabrown and all kinds of other shit that is even mentioned in the Smogon Featured RMT's that you can't pinpoint any further than Marth (he was the first to use it the most successfully, but I'm sure others before him used it too).

    @Hikari's Jirachi I love Scarf Jirachi personally, but I must say, that as an HO player, I've usually found it more useful to run trick to stop set up sweeps. I've used Healing Wish before and it's never as good as I found it to be on paper; though I will say that Scarf Jirachi works amazingly with a few choice partners; namely, LO Conkeldurr!

    Anyways, as for the set(s) I'm going to recommend:


    [​IMG] @ [​IMG]
    Trait: Own Tempo
    Nature: Jolly
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SDef / 252 Spe
    - Spore
    - Stealth Rock
    - Spikes
    - Explosion

    Comments: Yeah, lot's of people "lol"ed when I mentioned this on Smogon IRS. However, this thing is perfectly viable and possibly even better than Skarmory. This thing puts a Pokemon to sleep; like lead Breloom, but it also gets those SR and Spikes. What is so great about this spread is that it outpaces Sash Breloom and Custap Skarmory, which effectively stop most of these playstyles (Custap Skarm teams, if smart enough to interpret threat, have to sac other members to spore; which is great since its now 5v4 really since Smear and Skarm don't technically count, per say). Anyway, most of you laughed your ass off when you saw Explosion, but it's honestly the crux of the set. You have to use it to understand what I mean; Explosion makes Rapid Spinning on Smeargle impossible unless your name is Starmie, and Explosion stops things like Dragonite, Volcarona, ThundyT, Terrakion, Landorus-I, Toxicroak and other set up sweepers from taking advantage of Smeargle (can you really say that about Skarm, folks?) A note on explosion's power; it does about 65% to Toxicroak, though only about 25% to 100% HP Dragonite (though around 52% if otherwise). What I'm trying to say is that Explosion isn't really weak. While yes, alone, it IS weak, when used on an HO team, the damage it does is more than enough for priority or otherwise to pick off.

    OO: While I prefer Explosion to go off with a bang, Magic Coat and Taunt are also perfectly viable as well. Faster taunt users like Sash Terrakion (though most don't run Taunt) and Taunt Aerodactyl will be in for surprises if you use Magic Coat. You can use taunt to effectively shut down Skarm in the event someone sacks another Pokemon to Spore so Skarm could still set up.


    [​IMG] @ [​IMG]
    Trait: Justified
    Nature: Timid / Naive
    EVs: 252 SpA / 4 Atk / 252 Spe
    - Secret Sword
    - Hydro Pump / Surf
    - Hidden Power [Ice]
    - X-Scissor

    Comments: Everyone who goes to Smogon knows that I was the first user to "introduce" it to Smogon. While others might have used it before, I was the beginning of it's popularity. And I came here to prove that I am the master of EB and prove it with this set. Most people will suspect EB as soon as they see Icy Wind; so, you can use X-Scissor to hit Celebi instead and bluff Choice Scarf that much more easily. Here is a scary calc:

    4Atk Expert Belt Keldeo (-Atk) X-Scissor vs 252HP/0Def Leftovers Celebi (Neutral): 47% - 56% (192 - 230 HP). Guaranteed 3HKO. 12% chance to 2HKO with Leftovers. Guranteed 2HKO after SR damage

    Yes, this is slightly less than HP Bug, but it still gets the job done. Hazards are primal, and after switching in and out of them, it should be worn down plenty enough. To be fair, using a neutral nature to attack will secure the 2HKO with a nice minimum 53% with X-Scissor. Some attack investment may be used, but it isn't exactly necessary. Now, while I love using the HP Bug Keldeo, if players are outsmarting you or plain not falling for the bluff; you can run this set to easily beat those suckers into the ground, and show them that not all HP Ice Keldeo are Choice Scarf

    OO: The standard EB Keldeo; and yes, this includes my Rain Dance.


    EDIT @SasSipper Azumaril: Azumarill could slash Lum Berry and become your back-up Sash Loom counter :D. After all, you have sap sipper c:

    EDIT2 @Hobbes2 comment to Skarm: Brave Bird is better so you can use Custap BB to hit Starmie and prevent it from spinning (by ideally dying, but most users are smart enough to not put Skarm into Custap range which is why I don't like it but anyway: ) It really depends on what the user is trying to accomplish, but BB is certainly viable.
     
    Last edited: Jul 5, 2013
  26. Liarliarpantsonfire

    Liarliarpantsonfire Member

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    Liarliarpantsonfire
    Trapper Latias

    [​IMG]
    Latias (F) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Levitate
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SDef
    Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk)
    - Whirlpool
    - Substitute/Hidden Power Fire
    - Roost
    - Reflect

    This is an interesting Latias set I came up with. Common counters to Latias such as Tyranitar and Ferrothorn can now be trapped using Whirlpool as they switch in. Reflect allows you to take comfortably take even Banded Pursuit and you can then proceed to stall out T-tar with Sub + Roost. Ferrothorn can't possibly break your subs and is therefore destined to die to a million Whirlpools :P Banded Scizor is more annoying as it can U-turn, but you can just scout it with Substitute. HP Fire can also be used to take out Scizor after two SR switch ins, and takes out Ferrothorn in three hits. This means it can annoy you with Leech Seed + Protect though, and Ferrothorn in rain still totally walls you.
     
  27. Dragon.

    Dragon. Oh noes I lost my sarcasm

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    sSash reflect with reflect type imo. Also, I'd use -SpA instead since you'll want Whirlpool to do more damage; HP Fire is killing scizor either way and if use Sub the -Atk is all be redundant.
     
  28. gnaaye

    gnaaye New Member

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    No need to slash Lum Berry: Spore is still Grass-type, so it activates Sap Sipper.
     
  29. Dragon.

    Dragon. Oh noes I lost my sarcasm

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    Oh, that would be right lol XD. Never mind that then; forgot Spore was a grass type attack.
     
  30. Hannah

    Hannah Come a little closer

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    Hannah
    [​IMG]

    Ninetales
    (M) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Drought
    EVs: 252 HP / 80 SDef / 176 Spd
    Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    - Fire Spin
    - Toxic
    - Disable
    - Substitute

    Ninetales is one of the more helpless weather starters considering her rivals hit her for SE. I started using this set for my sun teams because I can go toe to toe with opposing weather inducers and even KO them!

    The set is pretty simple, trap your opponents with Fire Spin, Sub up and Disable their Super effective move. Whittle their HP lower by setting up subs and efficiently switching when you're out of options.

    It also allows you to outspeed Banded Dragonite and Disable him while outraging so, it's pretty cool!
     
  31. Dragon.

    Dragon. Oh noes I lost my sarcasm

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    That sounds cool! Do you have any logs of showing it's effectiveness, though? It seems Sub + SR would whittle Tales down really hard, but I could see this working. I'd slash HP ground / Roar on Toxic so Heatran doesn't wall you or so that things like Dragonite don't come in and set up. Nice set :)
     
  32. User Name

    User Name Life is a maze

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    Just wondering, how does that Ninetales set deal with Edgequake? :O
    I had great fun with a Disable Ninetales myself (a long time ago anyways), but I used Air Balloon to get around non-Choiced T-tars.
     
  33. Spoovo The Pirate

    Spoovo The Pirate Meep! Article Contributor Article Contributor

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    Both Whirlpool and HP Fire are special moves, so there's no need for a neutral Attack nature anyway lol.
     
  34. Dragon.

    Dragon. Oh noes I lost my sarcasm

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    Oh my bad I thought it was physical D:
     
  35. Blitzamirin

    Blitzamirin Waluigi! Number one!

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    Stone Miss' 80 accuracy doesn't do it any favors, especially when it has to take out the sub and kill the Pokemon itself (This is assuming a Disabled Earthquake). Anyways, you want to preserve Ninetales (seeing that its main goal is to defeat opposing weather inducers), so if this is a chance too risky to take, you can gain a "free" switch, because the opponent can't switch out during Fire Spin, thus allowing a better matchup.

    I tried a similar set in the past (with Eject Button for some interesting properties; like setting up with something), and this has given me some more insight on Tales. Perhaps it isn't the worse OU Pokemon there is.
     
  36. Finchinator

    Finchinator IT’S FINK DUMBASS

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    The Keldeo set isn't worth it. X-Scissor is so situational, as is Focus Sash in a sense. Might as well run standard Expert Belt set as it functions consistently well and can lure / threaten a plethora of common threats every game as opposed to having to rely on less power in Focus Sash and being mixed with X-Scissor.

    The Latias set is a total stretch as trapping isn't really that great for a pokemon like latias that'll end up trapped more than trapping, even if it's meant to whirlpool. If you want to have a trapper, run one like Dugtrio / Gothitelle, or a pursuit user! Not latias as it has much more productive functions and this is just plain not viable.

    Hannah's set is interesting, I guess. Realistically, Standard Specialy Defensive Ninetales is fine. It's just as functional as bulky politoed once you give it the standard sun support. Trapping with SubDisable at least makes sense on this set, so I won't totally bash it, but again it appears to be a bit of a stretch. Here's a "standard" ninetales (for those of you stuck trying to use obscure ninetales sets) :

    Ninetales (M) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Drought
    EVs: 248 HP / 240 SDef / 20 Spd
    Calm Nature (+SDef, -Atk)
    - Will-O-Wisp / Toxic (I elect to use Toxic)
    - Flamethrower
    - Roar
    - Protect / Sunny Day (I elect to use Protect)

    This gets the job done fine. If it's not broken, don't fix it. The niche of hannah's set that 'beats' weather setters is great and all, but sunny day and/or dugtrio works, too. Plus, this is why you have 6 pokemon on a team - not just ninetales / ninetales and a sun abuser.



    I think that people should figure out the difference between a Creative set and an Effective set before they post. It'd be creative to use Fling + Iron Ball Tyranitar. However, it wouldn't be effective since it can only be used once, Tyranitar's common checks resist dark / won't take a ton of damage, and Iron Ball makes Tyranitar very slow prior to being flung could make it so Tyranitar cannot even fling it's item at all. It'd be effective to use Mixed LO SD Garchomp
    Garchomp (F) @ Life Orb
    Trait: Rough Skin
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Naive Nature (+Spd, -SDef)
    - Swords Dance
    - Outrage
    - Earthquake
    - Fire Blast
    (It hits Skarmory and 4x fire weak pokemon in rain hard enough unboosted with fire blast and fire fang just isn't cutting it without the boost. Not that this is my submission, more of an example.) This set lures in common SD Garchomp 'checks' like Ferrothorn / Skarmory / Forretress (because everyone forgets it can use fire moves), it has the LO boosted power with great offensive stats / good speed, and it can sweep just like any other garchomp SD set. (As you see, the pros are more noticeable here than in the creative set.)

    Some sets that are effective may be creative, or vice versa, the goal of this thread is to post effective sets that are creative / insert word for not standard or well-known here. Overall, if your set is Creative and Effective then odds are it's worth posting (assuming it's not already popularized / posted. I don't want to toot my own horn, but that Politoed's a decent example. Feel free to disagree, since I'm probably the only one / one of few people to use it. Edit: When was this Alexwlf RMT posted? I've used this set on and off since B/W 1 on Smogon PO Server ladder, back when it existed.) Finally, don't reach to far out of nowhere to make a set (i.e: Sap Sipper Azumarill, Poliwrath, etc.) as it is likely not going to work, nor provoke interest amongst people reading your post.

    Just my two cents.

    @Dragon,
    I can't be fucked to go through every post and look at every last detail while commenting on them (just kinda did a quick run-through) especially when some are opinionated and I believe my sets are fine the way they are because that's how I utilize them!
     
    Last edited: Jul 6, 2013
  37. Dragon.

    Dragon. Oh noes I lost my sarcasm

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    Ninetales needs speed. The whole reason why Tales is decent is because it can outpace Modest Landorus-I at +0, among other things. I hope people don't use that set because one of Ninetales's only niche's as a weather lead is it's better speed tier than TTar / Toed / Abama (granted, Scarf Tales sucks, but Tales has more utility and overall speed and can be used as back up check to plenty of things, like SashLoom and Landorus-I and Landorus-T and Gliscor and Lucario to name a few things). Also, the whole point is to give Ninetales A JOB, to DO SOMETHING. The set you posted spreads WoW and occasionally roars nothing more (can;t spam Flamethrowers since you lack speed T_T).

    Also, you didn't comment on Smeargle (which is effective and creative). Effectiveness can be debated. If you think SapSipper Azu doesn't work, TELL US WHY. The thing with Azu doesn't break holes like the other set; it's meant to lure Ferrothorn and Breloom and Celebi and effectively remove them from the game, which makes the lives of things like Scarf Keldeo and Landorus-I much easier. It does it's job flawlessly. That alone makes it decent enough to use. Ultimately, you can argue that other Pokemon can lure these threats out, but if a user wants to use Azu for the surprise lure (since it is more effective) than do not bash on it's ability to lure them out since it is done perfectly. It might not be standard or effective on it's own, but it can certainly be viable if you use the right partner Pokemon. Again, you make a vague statement and don't give us any specificity. Don't make vague statements; pick out things you don't think work and tell us why. Don't say they don't work or aren't effective; I just lose respect for you when you do that. It's like you think you are better than the poster who posted the spread and won't take the time to elaborate on your position.

    As for "your" Politoed, look at Alexwolf's RMT. He was one of the first to popularize it. Also, you don't comment on my suggestions to it. Or to Gatr.

    As for Keldeo, the normal set is better; I agree. The point of X-Scissor is to make your bluff stronger if the user wishes too, and they both have perks. You really have to use it before saying it's inconsistent. Naive nature is probably the primary nature, and hazard support makes X-Scissor more than viable. HP Ice hits Amo and the Lati twins harder on the switch, and OHKO Breloom (Icy Wind does not). So it does have a few more perks, please don't ignore those.

    EDIT @ Finch:

    1. Then don't make vague posts if you aren't going to specify.
    2. Did you "quickly run through" my suggestions. I don't see how you can argue with any of my helpful logic. I'll be damned; if you want your Gatr to miss the Crunch on Jellicent because it outpaces you than be my FUCKING guess asshole.
     
    Last edited: Jul 6, 2013
  38. Spoovo The Pirate

    Spoovo The Pirate Meep! Article Contributor Article Contributor

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    Not to be prude, but I wouldn't think it was the best idea to argue with and insult a moderator. I can understand that you disagree with him, but Finch never has been one to go into a lot of detail with this sorta thing. He's about as blunt and concise as a stop sign. xD
     
  39. Finchinator

    Finchinator IT’S FINK DUMBASS

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    I don't moderate OU. I moderate NU. I have no more standing here than an ordinary user, just saying.

    I am pretty sure I just talked in detail about the quality of set-posting, but I suppose I didn't clarify my reasoning on why some sets aren't sufficient, why some things need changes, etc.

    Sorry for that, will edit when I wake up. It's 2 AM, for me, will be up at like noon at this rate. Check this post back then, I suppose.

    Alright.
    Lets start with Feraligatr. Crunch is viable. Superpower is viable. I stated both could be used, but Superpower is better. That's simply because Ferrothorn is top 5 or so in usages while Jellicent isn't even top 20. Ones use appears to outdo anothers. Also, Feraligatr outspeeds Jellicent and Heatran regardless. Unless you have like 200 Speed EVs on Jellicent or EV your heatran decently in speed, which no SDef ones do!

    Onto Smeargle, I'd use Froslass in OU before this. It's just an excuse to use an anti-lead in OU. If you see your opponent has a smeargle, you're obviously going to lead something faster and then if / when it's slept, goto another thing so it only gets a chance to set up SR while you kill it. Explosion will also never be used and does pitiful damage. I'd use Custap Skarm, Froslass, hell - even Cruslte before this as they aren't so dead weight and predictable.

    Onto Politoed, Perish Song on non-scarf Politoed when a third coverage move is useful doesn't cut it, imo.
     
    Last edited: Jul 6, 2013
  40. Dragon.

    Dragon. Oh noes I lost my sarcasm

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    Finch, usage means nothing when making a team. If I am Jellicent weak, I'm not going to run Superpower to hit Ferrothorn if something like Lucario is setting up on Ferro anyway. I'm going to run Crunch. Teambuilding is about covering weaknesses, which is why they are both equivalent -- because it solely depends on what you are hitting; therefore, neither is better than the other. That's like saying Surf is better than HP Fire on Latios because it's overall better based on usage -- you use HP Fire to hit Scizor, right? So they are equally useful. Usage determines nothing.

    Jellicent hit 193 or 194, and Gatr hits 192 with no investment. Meep. Also, 212 outpaces min speed Rotom-W (they hit 208). Also, some people run speed creep on Jellicent to get CB Tar and WoW, so you get the jump on those too. Same for Heatran if they carry WoW.

    Onto your other comments: Frosslass doesn't get Spikes or Spore. Obviously you have never used Smeargle in your life because Explosion is strong enough if utilize on HO (and because it's an HO lead, it kinda has to be utilized on them). Custap Skarm doesn't put anything to sleep, and Custap Skarm can't reliably beat other Custap Skarm like Smeargle can. Really, you need to use this, because all your comments on Smeargle just sound stupid to people whom have used them (which is really just me I suppose). Use Explosion and then come back to me. It has it's uses. Like breaking subs, stopping Volcarona from setting up on you, stops Dnite from carelessly coming in and DD'ing to death (Skarm can't do that for DNite), and Explosion is really just good utility. You have to use it to understand. Which, clearly, you don't. Please, actually use this before giving me bad feedback like: "Also explosion will never be used" when I clearly put it in the recommended set and "Explosion does pitiful damage" when Explosion doesn't HAVE to do a lot of damage; it stops spins and set ups and knocks things into priority KO range or makes a check / counter weaker so that another Pokemon can pick it off. You don't understand the role all of these suggested Pokemon play -- you just bash on them and compare them to other sets of that Pokemon or other Pokemon that "outclass" them when really these Pokemon that are suggested play different roles. How can you compare Choice Scarrf Genesect with RP Genesect, right? Same with coverage attacks; they COVER things. One can't be more useful than the other neutrally. It's impossible. The most useful one always depends on what you need to COVER, right? Smeargle's role is to put a Pokemon out of commission and get up SR (and sometimes 1Spikes; especially if the sleeping target stays in or has natural cure); it uses Explosion as utility to stop it from being set up bait or to stop spinning reliably (more reliable than Skarm).

    Onto Politoed, coverage all depends on what the teambuilding is looking for (like I said before). Perish / Encore can force switches and stops set up while giving you an opp. to rest all the damage off from earlier. Seriously, if you run Breloom, why do you need HP Grass or Focus Blast, right? Perish or Encore can be insurance to CM Jirachi among other things. You keep basing a lot of things based on coverage or usage, when really, what is and isn't used depends on what the user is looking for. Like with Azu; if someone wanted a surprise lure for Breloom and Celebi, Azu lures and kills them perfectly. It does it's job flawlessly. Perish and Encore do their jobs perfectly respectively and sometimes, the extra coverage is redundant.


    Ultimately, I don't think you understand the thread. You post Creative sets, and Effectiveness is determined by debates on this thread / proof from poster / usage from other Players. Sure, some things are obviously not going to work, but there are some gems or things worth trying out. Please don't be like some of those Smogon fags and decide not to use things and comment on them anyway. It really makes you sound stupid :/ Like on Smeargle. You have to try it before you can actually argue against it. It's more useful in practice than on paper. There are things that work that way. Like Blastoise. Anyone who has used it knows its perfectly viable in OU, but a million Smogon users can tell you how Tenta outclasses it (when it doesn't; they cover different things and some of the same things).


    My two cents. I'm going to refrain from posting here. You see, I like how you give me your reasons to each of my suggestions, even if I may not agree with them. Saying "Oh, my sets work fine so I'm not going to change them" is just being a dick. I mean really, if a user takes their time to respond to something YOU posted, you should feel more than happy to entertain whatever they say since the content is to help whatever you post and they took time out of their day to comment on something you posted. It's rude, really. Especially when you make a vague post that imply and bash other posts. I think your better than that. Prove those jerks on IDM that you aren't an ass or a noob and act more responsibly, ok? I can only stick up for you so much :/