DING DING Trading Samurai's kill away for an expose could make things slower, I guess. And revealing a friendly PR instead of killing it would mean a dilemma for the BG in the following night. Some cool stuff should come out of that. Of course, we would have to rename Uncle Sam.
I'd suggest removing the Samurai role for a week and see how it goes. As for the Werewolf, I honestly think they should be their own faction, but one less than the Mafia.
Nononono Don't put in a Doc/Pub Cop combo, Town Pub Cops are really unbalanced. It's bad enough we have it in one theme, don't add it to default. I still think mafia should get more power, although I don't personally object to the dayvig removal.
I think I have a solution to the problems. Remove Samurai Add a Mafia Saboteur (Mafia with a distract and kill) to both Mafia teams. Also add it instead of the first Mafia in small games, and replace Hooker with Villy in a 5 player set up (Prevents WW from being broken). Add Hooker in at about 8. Make Miller spawn a little later in small games (when second Mafia is in the game) Should make the Village less broken, and the game shouldn't rely on follow the cop as much.
Samurai is hardly in the game though, requiring 24 players. Don Italian comes at 23, and Don French comes at 18. The balance issues come more between the time the Mafias split and the time both dons are around, 12-23 players to be precise. What if you made the Dons and the Godfather also have daybomb properties? This would limit the Samurai from killing willy-nilly.
The MA's were thinking of giving the Italian Mafia a Miller (a killer that inspects as Villager) and the French Canadian Mafia a Distracter/Killer in games of 12 - 23 We also need a way to possibly boost the Werewolf's power in larger games.
I'm against having both of those roles at the same time. If there's an evil distractor, then Inspector is required to play silently more often, but that would be impractical with a mole around (think about how Zelda/Athena hardly lead the village on their themes when Skull Kid/Medusa is around). How about not having WW on large games? It was a role designed for small games and replaced by Godfather on large games, so why not leave it only on where it was intended?
@ First Point: That's because there is Hades in Myth, and in Zelda, Link claims, not Zelda @ Second Point: That sort of makes the Village a little OP in huge games. One more lone role could tip the balance to a fair game.
That's not the point. In both cases, those roles will have a hard time playing silently, but at least on those themes there are early alternatives for them to not need to reveal themselves. If default had an evil distractor AND a mole, Inspector would be forced to play silently always, but it wouldn't be possible because of the mole role. That would be a problem until Samurai appears in the game. I don't disagree with this this, but I don't think that pushing a role not designed for that situation would solve anything. It's kind of weird to balance a side by adding an unbalanced side to the game. I feel a new role specific for large games (even if it's just a modified Werewold) would do a better job than having to buff the existing Werewolf, since any buff to Werewolf could tip off the balance of small games.
If you think about how the game plays differently with a mafia roleblocker, spy or mayor becomes the role to claim instead of inspector. Barring fakeclaims, PRs should connect and the town will still get the inspector's voiced info. I don't think adding both a mafia roleblocker and a reverse miller hurts the town too much when you potentially have both a spy that can find scum and a hooker to stop their kills. On the topic of larger games, what about a one-time daykill for the werewolf? I'm thinking nonrevealing versus revealing, the sort of thing you save for mid or late game to take out a specific threat. Since there's certainly the samurai to consider alongside this, how about changing the samurai's (revealing) daykill to one use as well? It stops the WW from always burning his daykill on the samurai (along with the BG and the mafia deciding how to use their night actions on the samu-turned-villager) and takes out the reckless samurai strategy where he mows through villagers until he hits something. (If the samurai gets that nerf, I'd like to see how he affects slightly smaller games, 20 or 22+ people?)
A one-time daykill for Samurai sounds good to me. How about giving it also a one-time expose (but he can't use both the same day)? Or give this expose to another PR, probably Mayor, Inspector or Spy? This expose should reveal the user as well. (Yeah, I am still stuck to the expose being added to default :v) Also, a one time daykill for werewolf sounds cool for me, especially if samurai is daykill-able.
Hey, since when were exposes and daykills necessary to balance a theme? Samu reveals and WW doesn't is an interesting conflict for WW - kill Insp or Samu? It could work but Samu still seems OP - recharges perhaps?
But having both still would be overdoing. If both an evil PL and a Mole are added, Village will be ridiculously underpowered until Samurai appears. Thinks about those Zelda games where Link die N1 while almost no bad guy die/get haxed. Zelda is unable to claim due to Kotake, and Skull Kid prevents Zelda from playing silently, so those games tend to be dull for village while the bad guys are free to rampage the village. You can't balance a theme by having a strong team become totally weak. Also, this is default. Teaching about the danger of an evil distractor is fine, but not only those changes would completely change the essence of the theme and how it's played, but they would also make the theme unable to teach the basics to most players. I'd rather have a slight unbalance than having default losing its role as a theme to learn the basics of PO Mafia.
The Village is still powerful. And you can still attempt to connect PR's. It's just a change from the "Follow the Cop" setup that we have at the moment, as it requires very little skill to pull off. It is also not a slight unbalance, the game is un-winnable 95% of the time if BG is alive. Also, it will still be able to do that. We're not doing anything like convert in the theme, so it should still be very easily. As a Head of Mafia Tutoring, I know this.
I like how some people ask for suggestions and then refuses to listen to anyone who offers them. I will just bring again that a mole was already tried on default (the old Italian Conspirator roles). It was a disaster, as it made a game strategy impossible (I once was that mole role and Inspector PMd me D1 after inspecting. We then killed him N2. How can you say there's skill involved there?). With both an evil Hooker and a mole, you are making the 2 most basic strategies for Inspector (claim or play silently) impracticable. I don't see that helping the channel at all. And you are wrong if you think that "I won't be complicated because there's no convert and stuff". It's not about the command, it's about implementation. Look at TAC: A converter that's way simpler to understand than an Spy role. My last suggestion: If you want a theme that doesn't follow the "Follow the Cop" formula, make a new one. You could even use waehofen's classic theme as a base.
Have you ever inspected a Demigod/Citizen while Medusa/Skull Kid is alive? If you did, I'm quite sure most of the time you didn't PM that person because you knew it could be a bad guy in disguise. The mere knowledge of this fact is enough to make silent play ineffective. Heck, look at at Kirby: Sleep Kirbies exposed by Mike get lynched all the time simply because Ax Knight/Marx Soul is alive, even when the chance of that person being bad is as low as 1/5. The suggestion was not to remake default, but to make a 2nd defaultish theme that will hold those concepts you want to add to default. Although waehofen's classic has some serious balance issues, I think having that theme (after it's fixed) in addition to default would be better than overcomplicating default.
You sure you play PO Mafia? Because if you did, I think you would have understood that even if Inspector can find another PR, in most situations that PR wouldn't be able to voice Inspector anyway, so it would be 2 players playing silently unable to do anything against mafia. And it was a disaster. IC and FCC didn't last for 2 weeks that time before everyone agreed it was not good for the theme. Why do you think it's going to be different now?
>Original Conspirator >FCC and IC came more than 1 year before that If you want to talk about that bizarre Conspirator default had until recently, then it's even worse. That role's ability to reveal as a Villager lasted even less than FCC and IC did. BTW, both were disasters. The killing Conspirator only lasted more time because a few staff people refused to believe that role was harmful to the theme.
If you want to discuss specific situations, then I can do that too: >Inspector finds BG N1 >Neither BG or Inspector can voice, so both keep silent >Inspector finds Mafia N2. Both players still unable to reveal they know a mafia >Inspector finds a Villager N3. Could use as a voice, but wait! That could be the mole! >Inspector finds Mayor N4. Now they can get a safe voice. All that work to get one mafia. But how many PRs you think Village would have lost by this time? >Original Conspirator >FCC and IC came more than 1 year before that If you want to talk about that bizarre Conspirator default had until recently, then it's even worse. That role's ability to reveal as a Villager lasted even less than FCC and IC did. BTW, both were disasters. The killing Conspirator only lasted more time because a few staff people refused to believe that role was harmful to the theme.
That's very similar to theorymoning, there's no guarantee that a game will flow like that. That's not to say a role like that, but weaker and sided with the Mafia couldn't work.
Except the roles suggested are stronger than the ones that had those disastrous runs. And they were already sided with Mafia before.
If you give the expose to Hooker, Spy or Vigilante, I don't think it would make the village OP, it is a 1-shot expose that reveals the user too and is random, might expose a villy as it might reveal a baddie. And as IceKirby said, and as I previously said, you should concentrate about what you want to teach player throught the default theme, having a slight unbalanced game is fine. And put the consp back. ;_; I want a bad consp back please that doesn't win with village. ;_; It's also for new players to have more idea about sides' complexity. Also, @TSO, I am not suggesting the addition of expose necessarly for balance matters but for learning basics stuff. :v How about giving a concealed (I mean non-revealed) expose for Don FCM and Don IM. It would even work better if it is like Rotk's day inspect, something like: "+Game: Don FCM was hanging out in his black Mercedes and detected Bodyguard on the street." (excuse my English :$) this expose should be a one-time use imo. This works like an inspect, only it is a day action that might alert the "inspected' target. If you find it a bit too complicated, then f*** you. </3 Hehe, just kidding, well then a one-time /inspect for each Don? The bad thing with /inspect given to Dons is: the inspected target might die rendering totally useless and I feel like only one role should be able to /inspect: Inspector. :v Anyways, by giving mafia a dayinspect (/expose) or a nightinspect (/inspect) they will have more clues on what to kill and what not to kill (in case they inspected another mafia or a mere villager).
Which is the whole point I'm trying to explain. Mole is fine. Evil Distractor is fine. Mole AND Evil distractor is NOT fine. You said you wanted to avoid the "Follow Inspector" only games. Then add the Roleblocker, but don't add the Mole, since both roles together remove 95% of the possibilities of an Inspector role being effective. If you are going to impose an obstacle that strong to a role, you NEED to offer a viable alternative for that role to act, or you could as well remove the role entirely. The "Wait for one of those roles to die" is not an alternative, as that is merely waiting for a luck night instead of skillful play.
I don't have the logs as I DC'd, but I played a game of Default recently. Insp claimed n1, and PR's PM'd. I was Hooked n1.(and because of the obvious mechanics, PL has hit Mafia straight away. The only way that Mafia can win now is a blind shot in the dark at who is a PR. That's it. As for DFCM and DIM providing balance, what bullshit! If their teammate's being PL'd, what use is it to be able to ignore PL? It's no use at all. And as for saying that BG being reliable is too streamlined, it's not. 9/10 games the PR's are reliable. PL doesn't distract BG. Neither forget to PM. So a "PR crossfire" or "inattentive PR" scenario is ridiculous and doesn't happen, as well as being reliant on bad play.
Spoiler (17:24:44) *************************************************************************************** (17:24:44) Times Up! : (17:24:44) The Roles have been Decided! : (17:24:44) ±Game: You are a Inspector! (17:24:44) ±Game: Type /Inspect [name] to find his/her identity! (17:24:44) Current Roles: Bodyguard, French Canadian Mafia, French Canadian Mafia, Hooker, Inspector, Italian Mafia, Italian Mafia, Mayor, Spy, Villager, Villager, Villager, Villager, Villager. (17:24:44) Current Players: Bawss, BebbZ, Beep Robot, DevilKirby, Fegelein, Jounoichi, Leon, Nacker, Stocke, SuddenDeath5, The Magikarp, Twilight, matthewbny, tobyfant. (17:24:44) Current Team: Bodyguard, Hooker, Inspector, Mayor, Spy, Villager, Villager, Villager, Villager, Villager (17:24:44) Time: Night 1 (17:24:44) Make your moves, you only have 30 seconds! : (17:24:44) *************************************************************************************** (17:24:48) matthewbny: villy (17:24:49) Fegelein: Insp here (17:24:49) The Magikarp: i'm not sure :3 (17:24:50) Fegelein: BG on me (17:24:52) Fegelein: PR's pm (17:24:52) The Magikarp: this doesnt have spellcheck (17:24:55) ±Game: You have chosen to inspect Twilight! (17:24:56) tobyfant: :protect Fegelein (17:24:57) +Beep Robot: villager (17:25:00) tobyfant: :( (17:25:11) +Beep Robot: Basically fodder until needed for votes (17:25:14) *************************************************************************************** (17:25:14) Times Up! : (17:25:14) ±Kill: DevilKirby (Villager) died! (17:25:14) ±Kill: BebbZ (Italian Mafia) died! (17:25:14) ±Info: Twilight is the Italian Mafia!! (17:25:14) *************************************************************************************** (17:25:14) Current Roles: Bodyguard, French Canadian Mafia, French Canadian Mafia, Hooker, Inspector, Italian Mafia, Mayor, Spy, Villager, Villager, Villager, Villager. (17:25:14) Current Players: Bawss, Beep Robot, Fegelein, Jounoichi, Leon, Nacker, Stocke, SuddenDeath5, The Magikarp, Twilight, matthewbny, tobyfant. (17:25:14) Current Team: Bodyguard, Hooker, Inspector, Mayor, Spy, Villager, Villager, Villager, Villager (17:25:14) Time: Day 1 (17:25:14) You have 30 seconds to debate who are the bad guys! : (17:25:14) *************************************************************************************** (17:25:17) tobyfant: pro (17:25:18) +Beep Robot: soo.. ladda time (17:25:19) Fegelein: Twilight is IM (17:25:25) Fegelein: There goes one side already (17:25:27) Bawss: Alright good (17:25:28) The Magikarp: so is bebbz! (17:25:31) Twilight: Crap. (17:25:32) The Magikarp: :P (17:25:33) Twilight: Uhm. (17:25:35) Twilight: I. (17:25:37) Twilight: uh. (17:25:37) Fegelein: See, how easy is it to be a good insp? (17:25:44) *************************************************************************************** (17:25:44) Current Roles: Bodyguard, French Canadian Mafia, French Canadian Mafia, Hooker, Inspector, Italian Mafia, Mayor, Spy, Villager, Villager, Villager, Villager. (17:25:44) Current Players: Bawss, Beep Robot, Fegelein, Jounoichi, Leon, Nacker, Stocke, SuddenDeath5, The Magikarp, Twilight, matthewbny, tobyfant. (17:25:44) Current Team: Bodyguard, Hooker, Inspector, Mayor, Spy, Villager, Villager, Villager, Villager (17:25:44) Time: Day 1 (17:25:44) It's time to vote someone off, type /Vote [name], you only have 30 seconds! : (17:25:44) *************************************************************************************** (17:25:44) Twilight: I surrender. (17:25:46) citro: Fegelein showoff (17:25:49) ±Game:Twilight voted for Twilight! (17:25:49) ±Game:Fegelein voted for Twilight! (17:25:51) ±Game:Bawss voted for Twilight! (17:25:53) ±Game:The Magikarp voted for Twilight! (17:25:53) ±Game:tobyfant voted for Twilight! (17:25:54) ±Game:Nacker voted for Twilight! (17:25:56) *** Twilight waves the white flag. (17:25:57) ±Game:SuddenDeath5 voted for Twilight! (17:25:58) Twilight: Or blue. (17:26:01) Twilight: Blue is cool too. (17:26:02) *** The Magikarp beets up Twilight anyway (17:26:08) Twilight: beets (17:26:09) Twilight: lol (17:26:10) ±Game:Leon voted for Twilight! (17:26:14) The Magikarp: lol (17:26:14) Twilight: Taste terrible. (17:26:18) *************************************************************************************** (17:26:18) Times Up! : (17:26:18) ±Game: Twilight (Italian Mafia) was removed from the game! (17:26:18) Current Roles: Bodyguard, French Canadian Mafia, French Canadian Mafia, Hooker, Inspector, Mayor, Spy, Villager, Villager, Villager, Villager. (17:26:18) Current Players: Bawss, Beep Robot, Fegelein, Jounoichi, Leon, Nacker, Stocke, SuddenDeath5, The Magikarp, matthewbny, tobyfant. (17:26:18) Current Team: Bodyguard, Hooker, Inspector, Mayor, Spy, Villager, Villager, Villager, Villager (17:26:18) Time: Night 2 (17:26:18) Make your moves, you only have 30 seconds! : (17:26:18) *************************************************************************************** (17:26:19) The Magikarp: indeed (17:26:23) The Magikarp: aww you're gone. (17:26:24) ±Game: You have chosen to inspect The Magikarp! (17:26:36) Jounoichi: iaacm (17:26:41) The Magikarp: ? (17:26:48) *************************************************************************************** (17:26:48) Times Up! : (17:26:48) ±Kill: Beep Robot (Mayor) died! (17:26:48) ±Info: The Magikarp is the French Canadian Mafia!! (17:26:48) *************************************************************************************** (17:26:48) Current Roles: Bodyguard, French Canadian Mafia, French Canadian Mafia, Hooker, Inspector, Spy, Villager, Villager, Villager, Villager. (17:26:48) Current Players: Bawss, Fegelein, Jounoichi, Leon, Nacker, Stocke, SuddenDeath5, The Magikarp, matthewbny, tobyfant. (17:26:48) Current Team: Bodyguard, Hooker, Inspector, Spy, Villager, Villager, Villager, Villager (17:26:48) Time: Day 2 (17:26:48) You have 30 seconds to debate who are the bad guys! : (17:26:48) *************************************************************************************** (17:26:51) Bawss: Well (17:26:57) The Magikarp: who was PL-aww no pl (17:27:00) Fegelein: We are PL stalling (17:27:04) Fegelein: I found an FCM (17:27:05) The Magikarp: oh, there is (17:27:06) Bawss: Yeah (17:27:07) Bawss: :d (17:27:12) Jounoichi: i n s p e c t me (17:27:13) Nacker: inspect lead? (17:27:19) The Magikarp: inspector gadget (17:27:19) *************************************************************************************** (17:27:19) Current Roles: Bodyguard, French Canadian Mafia, French Canadian Mafia, Hooker, Inspector, Spy, Villager, Villager, Villager, Villager. (17:27:20) Current Players: Bawss, Fegelein, Jounoichi, Leon, Nacker, Stocke, SuddenDeath5, The Magikarp, matthewbny, tobyfant. (17:27:20) Current Team: Bodyguard, Hooker, Inspector, Spy, Villager, Villager, Villager, Villager (17:27:20) Time: Day 2 (17:27:20) It's time to vote someone off, type /Vote [name], you only have 30 seconds! : (17:27:20) *************************************************************************************** (17:27:23) The Magikarp: go go gadget vote :3 (17:27:34) ±Game:Fegelein voted for tobyfant! (17:27:35) Fegelein: rand (17:27:36) The Magikarp: teh suspense (17:27:38) ±Game:Bawss voted for tobyfant! (17:27:38) tobyfant: what (17:27:39) ±Game:SuddenDeath5 voted for tobyfant! (17:27:39) ±Game:The Magikarp voted for tobyfant! (17:27:41) tobyfant: miller (17:27:41) ±Game:Jounoichi voted for tobyfant! (17:27:44) The Magikarp: i thought you found an FCM (17:27:44) Bawss: Go Go Power Rangers (17:27:45) Fegelein: We are PL stalling at this moment in time (17:27:49) *************************************************************************************** (17:27:49) Times Up! : (17:27:49) ±Game: tobyfant (Villager) was removed from the game! (17:27:49) Current Roles: Bodyguard, French Canadian Mafia, French Canadian Mafia, Hooker, Inspector, Spy, Villager, Villager, Villager. (17:27:50) Current Players: Bawss, Fegelein, Jounoichi, Leon, Nacker, Stocke, SuddenDeath5, The Magikarp, matthewbny. (17:27:50) Current Team: Bodyguard, Hooker, Inspector, Spy, Villager, Villager, Villager (17:27:50) Time: Night 3 (17:27:50) Make your moves, you only have 30 seconds! : (17:27:50) *************************************************************************************** (17:27:58) ±Game: You have chosen to inspect Jounoichi! (17:28:18) Jounoichi: ok (17:28:19) *************************************************************************************** (17:28:19) Times Up! : (17:28:20) ±Info: Jounoichi is the Villager!! (17:28:20) No one died! : (17:28:20) *************************************************************************************** (17:28:20) Current Roles: Bodyguard, French Canadian Mafia, French Canadian Mafia, Hooker, Inspector, Spy, Villager, Villager, Villager. (17:28:20) Current Players: Bawss, Fegelein, Jounoichi, Leon, Nacker, Stocke, SuddenDeath5, The Magikarp, matthewbny. (17:28:20) Current Team: Bodyguard, Hooker, Inspector, Spy, Villager, Villager, Villager (17:28:20) Time: Day 3 (17:28:20) You have 30 seconds to debate who are the bad guys! : (17:28:20) *************************************************************************************** (17:28:27) Fegelein: Found a Villy (17:28:28) Jounoichi: i didnt die (17:28:34) Jounoichi: who? (17:28:38) The Magikarp: o.o (17:28:44) Fegelein: I have an idea on the other bad (17:28:44) Bawss: Your mom, duh (17:28:50) *************************************************************************************** (17:28:50) Current Roles: Bodyguard, French Canadian Mafia, French Canadian Mafia, Hooker, Inspector, Spy, Villager, Villager, Villager. (17:28:50) Current Players: Bawss, Fegelein, Jounoichi, Leon, Nacker, Stocke, SuddenDeath5, The Magikarp, matthewbny. (17:28:50) Current Team: Bodyguard, Hooker, Inspector, Spy, Villager, Villager, Villager (17:28:50) Time: Day 3 (17:28:50) It's time to vote someone off, type /Vote [name], you only have 30 seconds! : (17:28:50) *************************************************************************************** (17:28:55) ±Game:Fegelein voted for Stocke! (17:28:56) Fegelein: Rand (17:28:58) ±Game:Bawss voted for Stocke! (17:28:59) ±Game:Nacker voted for Stocke! (17:28:59) ±Game:SuddenDeath5 voted for Stocke! (17:29:01) ±Game:Jounoichi voted for Stocke! (17:29:02) Fegelein: We are still PL stalling (17:29:16) The Magikarp: good idea (17:29:19) *************************************************************************************** (17:29:19) Times Up! : (17:29:19) ±Game: Stocke (French Canadian Mafia) was removed from the game! (17:29:19) Current Roles: Bodyguard, French Canadian Mafia, Hooker, Inspector, Spy, Villager, Villager, Villager. (17:29:20) Current Players: Bawss, Fegelein, Jounoichi, Leon, Nacker, SuddenDeath5, The Magikarp, matthewbny. (17:29:20) Current Team: Bodyguard, Hooker, Inspector, Spy, Villager, Villager, Villager (17:29:20) Time: Night 4 (17:29:20) Make your moves, you only have 30 seconds! : (17:29:20) *************************************************************************************** (17:29:21) Nacker: gg margikarp ~~ (17:29:24) The Magikarp: gg :P (17:29:25) Fegelein: Magikarp is last bad (17:29:28) matthewbny: GG (17:29:29) Jounoichi: ok (17:29:30) ±Game: You have chosen to inspect Leon! (17:29:30) matthewbny: Godfather here (17:29:32) Fegelein: Insping my BG (17:29:35) The Magikarp: you got me! (17:29:37) The Magikarp: oh you! (17:29:38) Fegelein: for the lolz (17:29:49) *************************************************************************************** (17:29:49) Times Up! : (17:29:49) ±Info: Leon is the Bodyguard!! (17:29:50) No one died! : (17:29:50) *************************************************************************************** (17:29:50) Current Roles: Bodyguard, French Canadian Mafia, Hooker, Inspector, Spy, Villager, Villager, Villager. (17:29:50) Current Players: Bawss, Fegelein, Jounoichi, Leon, Nacker, SuddenDeath5, The Magikarp, matthewbny. (17:29:50) Current Team: Bodyguard, Hooker, Inspector, Spy, Villager, Villager, Villager (17:29:50) Time: Day 4 (17:29:50) You have 30 seconds to debate who are the bad guys! : (17:29:50) *************************************************************************************** (17:29:55) Fegelein: Hey BG, you are up to date in protecting me! (17:29:59) Fegelein: I inspected you (17:30:01) The Magikarp: HOOKER I DONT WANT AIDS (17:30:05) Jounoichi: lol (17:30:08) Leon: lol (17:30:11) Fegelein: lol (17:30:19) *************************************************************************************** (17:30:20) Current Roles: Bodyguard, French Canadian Mafia, Hooker, Inspector, Spy, Villager, Villager, Villager. (17:30:20) Current Players: Bawss, Fegelein, Jounoichi, Leon, Nacker, SuddenDeath5, The Magikarp, matthewbny. (17:30:20) Current Team: Bodyguard, Hooker, Inspector, Spy, Villager, Villager, Villager (17:30:20) Time: Day 4 (17:30:20) It's time to vote someone off, type /Vote [name], you only have 30 seconds! : (17:30:20) *************************************************************************************** (17:30:22) Bawss: lol (17:30:22) ±Game:Fegelein voted for The Magikarp! (17:30:22) ±Game:The Magikarp voted for The Magikarp! (17:30:24) Fegelein: GG (17:30:27) ±Game:SuddenDeath5 voted for The Magikarp! (17:30:28) The Magikarp: gg (17:30:28) ±Game:Bawss voted for The Magikarp! (17:30:34) The Magikarp: i survived long enough (17:30:34) ±Game:Leon voted for The Magikarp! (17:30:34) SuddenDeath5: villagerrrrrrrrr (17:30:41) The Magikarp: SuddenDeath5 we won the game (17:30:45) *** Jounoichi salutes (17:30:45) ±Game:Nacker voted for Nacker! (17:30:46) The Magikarp: you dont need to claim (17:30:49) *** The Magikarp salutes (17:30:53) *************************************************************************************** (17:30:53) Times Up! : (17:30:53) ±Game: The Magikarp (French Canadian Mafia) was removed from the game! (17:30:53) ±Game: The Good people (Fegelein, Leon, Nacker, Jounoichi, Bawss, SuddenDeath5 and matthewbny) wins! (17:30:53) *************************************************************************************** There really needs to be changes implemented, it is far too easy to win as Village. Unless the Mafia hit the BG, they are helpless. PL Stall makes things even worse.
Why not give the Mafia either an inspect or a distract? Inspect would make it so that Mafia could fakeclaim an Inspector, get all the PRs and stuff whereas distractor would make it so that Inspector, if claimed, will have a hard time getting results.
What about Inspector that can only inspect on Odd nights and PL that can only distract on Even nights? Or something where village PL can only PL even nights and mafia PL can only PL odd nights. This would break up PL stall as Mafia would have every other night to do something, at least. I think the first solution (insp odd/pl even) would be a nerf that village could afford. We don't need to necessarily buff Mafia depending how that changes the theme. We'd do an infinite curse chain as opposed to recharge as recharge doesnt require the player to act when they can, curse chaining would make it so if they didn't act, they couldn't use it the next night regardless.
Idea is fine. But the problem is, the PL would have to hit the Mafia on the even night, or else it runs a high chance of extermination without the killer being inspected on that night. What COULD be a solution: have the PL work every other night. Inspector should inspect every night. That would work well, as there will be a definite balance. Though , I agree: Keep it simple, sillies. (Haha: quoting Docomo)
Well, as we mafiascummers say When you have an overpowered town Balance it with some scum PRs! Let's see some of the stuff we could use: Role Cop: Mafia Inspector, basically, this could probably use a better name though Roleblocker: Mafia Hooker, again, needs a better name Strongman: Kefka (pierces BG) Traitor: Doesn't know partners, but usually has some sort of extra ability to compensate Godfather: Not to be confused with the GF we have now; inspects as Villager Jack of All Trades: Has a bunch of limited-charge abilities
In order to prevent PL stalling distract could be a distract/convert command that transforms mafias. After they are transformed twice they ignore distractions and are able to kill again, so village should vote them fast. It would only need a mafia2 and mafia3 roles to be added (6 total - 2 mafia, 2 italian and 2 fcm) and would allow PL to work every night but making her unable to stall forever. Just an idea.
I think one-charge abilities on the mafia would help them in the long run. Such as a one-time kefka kill. Stops inspectors from claiming for some time.