[BW2] LC General Discussion

Discussion in 'Past Gens Discussion' started by Weavile, Oct 13, 2012.

  1. Weavile

    Weavile Phoenix

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    You call them team cancer because you don't like them and they don't fit the one playstyle you've played since before the suspects that well. You insist these Pokémon are bad when they have been large parts of the metagame for a long time. Defensive Turtle, Dwebble, Drilbur, Lileep, Ferroseed and Archen. Those Pokémon have been used in LC before Yanma happened and they will be if it got banned again. They are all useful Pokémon and always will be, and they all run effective sets with Rocks. "DWEBBLE IS A HO ONLY MON" even if that were 100% true, ok, use one of the others, there's one or more that fits into any play style.

    You blame Yanma for "killing Volt-Turn", I don't see how it did that really, I think you forget that you no longer have an entirely brainless Pokémon to switch in every third turn and U-Turn out fearing none due to Regen, if Volt-Turn was actually dead that'd be why. But your effortless strat isn't dead anyway. It's simply not the only playstle anymore, Yanma, Darumaka, Chinchou and Magnemite all make decent U-Turners or Volt Switchers as well as Larvesta, Natu, Aipom if that's what you're inclined for. Etc.
     
  2. Artemisa

    Artemisa Well-Known Member

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    Things used before the unbans were not Archen and defensive turtle for one. Tirtouga was used, but it`s main set was SS, the support was like around 1%. People didn`t even know about Defensive Archen before unbans. In July it was around 2%. So that statement about those two are false.

    Are you denying that Bronzor is set up fodder, has no reliable recovery, is easily trapped by the common Magnemite, and doesn't hit hard. Ferroseed is kinda in the same boat except it has a decent stab move, but has a x4 weakness to fire, and a x2 weakness to fighting. You have to admit all Bronzor does is set up rocks and die, it really doesn't do anything. Instead of putting Bronzor you can add something that can actually support your team other than set up rocks and die. Btw I already said Lileep is probably the best isn't that great.

    Most of the things you mentioned that can u-turn aren't good defensive pivots, so it would be really hard to pull it off. VoltTurn relies checking defensive pokemon through momentum, it`s usually a core of three along with a spinner, because larvesta is almost mandatory in VoltTurn. 2 slots are left whatever the core cannot handle which isn't much. Every team member is essential in that playstyle and cannot afford to fall asleep. Yanma overwhelms the team since it`s an offensive sleeper and hits it hard with strong stabs.
     
  3. pokemonnerd

    pokemonnerd Only uso listens to pnerd. Devo too. Article Contributor Article Contributor

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    Actually I'm pretty sure VoltTurn isn't all that great now because Mienfoo was so godly.
     
  4. Artemisa

    Artemisa Well-Known Member

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    It`s not that great, but it's still good enough since Chinchou and Larvesta make a good core. Yanma`s #1 used set Hypnosis / Air Slash / HP Ground destroys volt turn. Almost nothing that playstyle can`t switch in to Yanma without being hurt by its stabs and they still risk being put to sleep, absolutely stopping the core or an essential team member. It's really hard to gain the momentum back due to the coverage of Yanma.
     
  5. Pokemon United

    Pokemon United Member

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    I still believe Yanma is a bit broken, as it is like landorus - i and does heavily affect teambuilding. But the meta has settled and everything seems stable. Yanma hasn't exactly shut down volt turn, as it is ohko'd by scarf chinchou's volt switch. I feel like the only suspect in lc right now is clamperl, and an easy solution would be just to ban dst making most people run orb (dies faster) or eviolite (not as strong as orb or dst).
     
  6. Poli

    Poli Member

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    I won't run Clamperl at all without DST, I feel like it's outclassed by Omanyte or other SSers anyway
     
  7. Pokemon United

    Pokemon United Member

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    Yes, banning DST makes clamperl a little less powerful and a bit easier to deal with.
     
  8. Rioku

    Rioku Not again.

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    I'd say banning DST would make Clamperl LC UU again and not really a note worthy threat. DST is pretty much the only reason Clamperl is useable, and its broken.
     
  9. Pokemon United

    Pokemon United Member

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    I think it would be at an average usage, and it would definitely be much easier to deal with.
     
  10. Mylo Xyloto

    Mylo Xyloto if your world falls apart, i'd start a riot

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    366.gif 200.gif 193.gif

    Wallbreakers
    - Which pokemon do you guys consider for their wallbreaking capabilities. When I think of Wallbreakers I think of CB or Mixed Victini in UU, Kyurem-B in OU, CB Sawk in NU etc. etc. Wallbreakers form a vital part of most teams since they essentially break through the opponents walls for another team mate to sweep.
     
  11. not a cop

    not a cop Member

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    none of those pokemon pictured are wall breakers at all whatsoever. at least in the way i view the term...
     
  12. Rioku

    Rioku Not again.

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    Clamperl is the wall breaker to end all others; OHKOs and 2HKOs everything. CB Crainidos and Cubone do a really good job too; breaking down common walls (or what counts as a wall in LC) with OP physical stabs like bonemerang and head smash.
     
  13. not a cop

    not a cop Member

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    clamperl isn't a wall breaker because it traditionally aims to set up and sweep. not just break through walls. also i would say darukama wall breaks better than both of those mons....
     
  14. Rioku

    Rioku Not again.

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    Just thought I would share my experience with Clamperl:

    [​IMG]

    Every single time... then I got three priority users. (js I did not make this)
     
  15. Rioku

    Rioku Not again.

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    Hey has anyone else noticed the rise in teams with at least three shell smashers. These teams are popping up more and more often, and in most cases I get completely wreckt. It's really weird because in the event of a grass type with over 28 speed and useable offenses these teams would be 6-0d. I see them everywhere now, like one out of every three games.
     
  16. Artemisa

    Artemisa Well-Known Member

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    This meta is officially the worst stage of LC. Xdevo unbanned everything just to see some sparks in LC make it more creative. Xdevo went AWOL and now you have closed the meta so much it is unbalanced and extremely stale. Yanma is completely broken and makes everyone run a SR setter, btw I'm pretty sure people have now realized that only three pokemon are decent setters (Dwebble, Drilbur, and Lileep). Not only an SR setter but a sleep talker, like Munchlax. Mienfoo was unfairly banned, Sand was too, Scraggy, and Murkrow.

    We literally are back in square 1. Where before the original unbans that Xdevo did it was VoltTurn. That meta is better than this one because the current one is unbalanced. I know we are not smogon, but that meta is more diverse and more balanced than this one. Please unban everything and ban Yanma.

    Down Big Brothers or free Unbans and enslave Yanma
     
  17. Aurist

    Aurist I do not jump for joy. I frolic in doubt.

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    while I agree with you on Yanma, i strongly disagree with the rest. teambuilding has opened up HUGELY with no mienfoo and sand. mienfoo is absolutely patently broken, it was genesect in LC but with bulk, recovery, no reliance on SE coverage, no need to go mixed, etc. sand forced teams to run 1 or more of a bout 3 pokemon in their team in order to ever beat it. Aside from Yanma and possibly DST I think that LC is the healthiest it can be at the moment. also SR doesn't even help that much against Yanma lol.

    i'd suggest going to smogon for your fix of mienfoo and sand, for a horrible constantly HO voltturn meta. not saying "if you don't like it leave", more "play both" :3
     
  18. Artemisa

    Artemisa Well-Known Member

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    Hi, just look at the usage stats on the Mienfoo era and the post ban

    Mienfoo never opened up Team Building, it just closed it down and forced people to use another fighting type. Even then, if you are banning things to open up team building then your knowledge of LC is off. As you can see we are not a tier, the closest we are to a tier is NU because you can't use Uber, OU, UU and LU. People will always use mons that are good over mons that are mediocre, that is just common sense, here is an example why use Duskull when you have Misdreavus. Sure Duskull is better unique, but overrall the better mon is Misdreavus. Same can be used with Mienfoo, example why use Machop when Mienfoo is faster, and has access to regen and has a higher stab move. If you want to be super creative! please go play LC UU. If you want to make a good solid team then you will use the best in the tier. It is possible to make a creative team even with Mienfoo and Sand in the tier, people are just lazy as fuck.

    Your knowledge in Sand is off too. Tirtouga, Shroomish, Chikorita, Snover, Choice Scarf Porygon, Murkrow, Lileep, and much more can all stop Sand. I don't get where you found this stereotypical point of view where you are forced to run Snover to beat it. Sand teams sap so much momentum and have type deficiencies it's not even funny. Ground / Ground / Ground / Rock / Filler / Filler, rofl. It's hard to cover threats while making a Sand Team because of the limited amount of team slots.

    Edit: Mienfoo isn't that bulky, Regenerator only makes it seem like it is. Timburr is bulky, Mienfoo is not.
     
  19. Aurist

    Aurist I do not jump for joy. I frolic in doubt.

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    It didn't force people to use another fighting type. It forced people to actually -choose- what fighting type fit their team if they wanted to use one (which many teams do) rather than just mindlessly slotting mienfoo in for free momentum. Now teams actually use fighting types like Riolu, Timburr, Croagunk, Mankey, Machop. It also allowed people to actually use Normal types that aren't Porygon. Regardless of the opening up of teambuilding, I already said what was broken about Mienfoo. also Misdreavus' usage didn't actually increase from Mienfoo being gone, it just took the #1 spot.

    Shroomish and Chikorita are not good pokemon and bad logic for a check. Murkrow is broken, so bad logic for a check. Lileep Tirtouga Snover and Porygon are legit but Lileep is a sand abuser too, and Snover gets little usage without sand (some might say unfairly), and Tirtouga is shaky. Sand also has easy ways of covering threats because the few things that are actually threats are easily beaten by things like Magnemite. As well as having an easier way of chipping down checks than any other playstyle.

    Eviolite and its typing, alongside Regenerator, affords it a very significant amount of bulk and longevity. Which is what I was saying is one of the reasons why it was like Genesect (or Tornadus-T) effect in the tier but better. It's no less bulky than any other offensive pokemon in the tier not named Misdreavus, only with bonuses on top of that.
     
    Last edited: Sep 16, 2013
  20. Artemisa

    Artemisa Well-Known Member

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    Please explain to me how they are bad Shroomish and Chikorita are bad and also tell me have you even used them to check sand?

    The common moveset for a Sand Rush Drilbur is Earthquake / Rock Slide / Shadow Claw / Sword Dance. Tell me how Shroomish and Chikorita does not stop that set. Shroomish walls almost every water type in LC. Shroomish has access to Spore and is great paired up with Ponyta with Sunny Day. They do not have a weakness to psychic that Foongus those and both are bulkier than Foongus. "Murkrow is broken, so bad logic" Lol. Just because Lileep is a sand abuser don't mean it can't be used outside of sand teams, now what you said was bad logic. The things I'm naming come from in-game experiences, not from things I'm pulling out of my ass.

    It's not the peoples fault they mindlessly run Mienfoo. Nobody in this LC Thread actually made a thread about other fighting types and what they do and actually encourage people to use other fighting types. All that was tier leaders banned mienfoo and just forced people to stick a Timburr in there team. Which is why Timburr is #2 and the next fighting type is #17 which is Mankey, nothing diverse about that. The way you described Mienfoo is like it will always predict right. If you HJK, and they switch to a ghost you are dead, if you knock off twice on the same poke because you predict a switch, you can get KO'd or crippled. Mienfoo involves prediction and as you know it's a risk and reward. You predict right good job, if you don't you either KO'd Mienfoo or fucked up your own momentum.

    Edit: It has longevity but so do common Mienfoo switch ins like Slowpoke, Foongus, Larvesta, Missy with Pain Split, and even another Mienfoo.
     
  21. Aurist

    Aurist I do not jump for joy. I frolic in doubt.

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    If you paid more attention to the stats, you'd notice that they are wrong at the moment, they have like 200 battles.

    Shroomish is outclassed by Foonguss in all circumstances. That it and Chikorita (who is just -bad-) check sand is simply a case of using otherwise bad, unused pokemon in a niche way to check something broken.

    The tier leaders banned Mienfoo because it was broken. Not for some idea of making more Fighting types viable. That more Fighting types, among other things, became viable, shows that the tier became more diverse with Mienfoo leaving it, which imo is a positive effect. Mienfoo does involve prediction. So did Genesect, Tornadus-T etc. Except the fact of the matter is if Mienfoo predicted badly, it either U-turned or switched out and came back with close to full health, next to no risk having been taken. Idk why you'd knock off twice on Mienfoo. Much easier to U-turn on the second Knock off because that requires zero prediction and you can bring in something more troubling to the switch in, not that Mienfoo actually had any real switch ins.
     
  22. Rioku

    Rioku Not again.

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    In my honest opinion sand is broken. You take one of the largest threats in the tier and give it double speed... yeah that isn't to grand.

    I may be the only person who disagrees about Yanma, but w/e it just isn't a problem for priority spam. The sleep is annoying, but how is that any different that Darkrai? Granted it has more power, coverage, and speed than Darkrai for its tier but it has so many more weaknesses to very common attacks. I don't really agree that its broken, but if banning it may help teambuilding, I'm all for it. I hate those annoy pokes.

    As Arte knows, one of my best teams has 5/6 Pokémon with less than 10% usage last month. There is so much teambuilding potential in LC, its just that to many people over look stuff. Take Dratini for example, while it may not appear to be that great of a Pokémon it can do so many things. It checks all the steels pretty well, can very easily set up, and can stop a Riolu shuffle. There are so many different options to run, I feel that the majority of people railroad their teams so to speak. They don't really look at what you can use, but instead of what's been used the most. Sure Misdreavus is much better than other ghosts, but each has their own niche (not that Missy can't do that and more in most cases). I've tried, before, to slam together all of the major threats of the tier that everyone uses and it doesn't work.

    Mienfoo had 40%+ usage, that's a little overkill in my opinion. The current meta feels balanced with usage for the most part. Sure you have extremely common cores and other things, but a little creativity here are there and you can really make something cool. Take Poli's RMT 6 Little Ice Creams. It isn't a conventional team by any means, but it peaked one, and in my experience is one of the hardest offenses to break.
     
  23. Artemisa

    Artemisa Well-Known Member

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    So Mienfoo, never spams fighting moves I see. It just runs U-turn and Knock off :]. Mienfoo just U-turns on Larvesta and never gets burned. Foongus gets knocked off, but nothing gets spored :]. Timburr and Croagunk and Riolu were always viable, you just made them more appealing by banning Mienfoo. I really don't see how they suddenly became "viable" after Mienfoo was banned. You can't get diversity in LC at all, due to how it's set up. The only time you get new pokes is until the next generation the only thing you can do is balance the tier. Mienfoo never hit anything hard or was broken due to stats or anything. A standard team can always manage Mienfoo. If you are banning it to open up team building then you are just hurting the metagame even worse. After Sand was banned, I didn't see Sun or Rain which people thought would happened. The only thing that happened was the meta was closed down even more and made Murkrow / Missy / Mienfoo even more used. After that Mienfoo and Krow were banned and now Missy is #1, then a fighting type and now Chinchou, then Porygon or w/e. This is just a never ending cycle that cannot be broken. Mienfoo was never the "magic" pokemon that would make everything much better and the usage stats much more balanced, and there will never such a pokemon in LC.

    Also something that bugs me, you have always had the capability to Team Build creatively no matter what was allowed. I used Shieldon for Murkrow and something Grimer for Mienfoo. Archen aswell even defensive Tirtouga, for sand sand Shroomish along with Taunt Mienfoo and choice scarf Porygon. Explore what is beyond the usage stats.
     
    Last edited: Sep 16, 2013
  24. Pokemon United

    Pokemon United Member

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    rofl how can you be talking about how broken yanma is when dst clamperl is still allowed for some reason? i mean ohko's everything and can sometimes even ohko munchlax after rocks, the best special wall in the meta! i agree with arte, the meta atm is shit. but with gen 6 looming, i don't think any big changes should be made . if we wait one more month, maybe some new threats will come along. also with a new gen coming up, maybe we could start with a clean slate (ex: sand, murk, mienfoo, sun? etc) and work our way down (by banning everything ofc).
     
  25. Artemisa

    Artemisa Well-Known Member

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    The only reason Clamperl is broken is because LC is unbalanced. Clamperl will always take a hit while it sets up, but then there isn't a lot of strong priority users that are used often. Murkrow's Sucker Punch kept Clamperl in check and pressures Clamperl with mind games, which is why Clamperl was never viewed as much of a threat.

    Yanma would still be broken due to the amount of checks/setters you have to use. I'm pretty sure people now know there aren't that many good hazard setters and even then if they do decide to use SR they still won't be Yanma proof.

    Forget the usage stats, ban Yanma and unban Sand, Scraggy, Mienfoo and Krow. Those pokemon all together balance the tier as in nothing will be overpower each other.

    #Fuck Overcentralization
     
  26. Rioku

    Rioku Not again.

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    I don't use hazards, nor do I have a Yanma problem. Yanma is fairly frail and can't take a lot of hits, so its easy to revenge or straight up KO with scarfers like Maggy, Chinchou, and Snover. Clamperl has forced me to run Meowth or Croagunk everywhere. Even then it can still break through. I retain Clamperl is broken.

    Pokémon United has a point, the meta sucks, so unbanning everything when gen 6 comes around seems like a really good idea. (imo we are better than smogon) With Scraggy, Mienfoo and Murkrow all gaining a fairy weakness the meta itself should balance out quite a bit, that is if they don't break some gen 6 Pokémon. Underrated threats such as Gastly and other poisons may rise in usage as the darks fall. Just a thought.
     
  27. Aurist

    Aurist I do not jump for joy. I frolic in doubt.

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    "The only reason Clamperl is broken is because LC is unbalanced."

    are you joking? and why won't you shut up about usage stats? things don't get banned because of usage stats. otherwise missy would be banned. they get banned because they're broken. like i've said like 3 times already.

    and lol at these people saying LC "sucks" now when it's the most balanced, fun and diverse it's been this entire gen. Clearly you guys are just in love with spamming bullshit HO with every team, because you hate actual strategy and prediction.

    (and I strongly doubt that most things won't be unbanned at the start of Gen 6. That's how these things work)
     
  28. Artemisa

    Artemisa Well-Known Member

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    Will you shut up pulling shit out of your ass.
    Your view on sand is aweful and your view on LC is worse.


    Mienfoo was never broken, you just want to see shit pokemon like Mankey, Machop, Duskull being used. Why the hell would you use that garbage when you have better fighting types. So what if it's used a lot it doesn't require multiple checks at all to stop.

    If you want to make a good team, you will use good LC pokes. It's fucking common sense, please go play LC UU and leave regular LC alone.

    Lastly, I don't even use HO and I don't even think it's that viable compare to balance. Please get your shit straight. ^_^.

    Edit: oo saw the prediction part, lol ur rly funny d00d
     
  29. Rioku

    Rioku Not again.

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    The meta only sucks because it lacks creativity for most teams. I gave up actually trying to ladder after running into the same two teams like 500 times. The first would be your standard Missy + Fighter + Drilbur + Smasher/Filler + Filller + Filler, and the second would be FiveSmash. It gets annoying when you run into the same teams over and over again. BE CREATIVE FOR A CHANGE LADDER! It annoys me to see so much team building potential wasted. Again look at Poli's RMT 6 Little Ice Creams, that team is so incredibly creative compared to most LC teams these days. Only Porygon and Croagunk are considered common in the current meta, and he doesn't even run a ghost. I should probably rephrase what I said, the meta doesn't suck, its dull.
     
  30. Weavile

    Weavile Phoenix

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    Ok then. Aurist reminded me this was going on.

    To an extent Arte you're right. You're never going to have the 20% usages you see in OU in Wifi LC. It's just not gonna happen. That said 70% usage as Mienfoo had is extremely unhealthy, Snorlax in GSC is not healthy by anyone's standards (except a few diehards) and that is a similar level of usage. The metagame pre-unbans was indefensible.

    As for the Sand Meta. It's ok, I don't hate it really. However as Aurist has said Chikorita is an ass Pokémon, when shit like that is forced into the meta simply to beat Drilbur it's not great. Drilbur as a sand sweeper was a really disproportionate threat. That's why the suspect wanted it banned (it being the whole sand team thing that made up like a third of ladder teams of ladder teams). Outspeeding everything including Scarfers and OHKOing 95% of the meta with no trouble. Scraggy is also a disproportionate threat imo, easy as fuck to set up, difficult to OHKO. Mienfoo is simply a brainless mon, there is absolutely 0 risk for sending it in in most cases and certainly 0 risk to putting it in your team, it has no weaknesses, incredibly powerful Hi-Jump-Kick or Drain Punch for healing, Knock Off, Baton Pass, Swords Dance, Stone Edge and most importantly U-Turn and Regenerator. When Mienfoo uses Knock Off on any potential switch in and then flees with U-Turn healing any damage it might take, if it can perform that action twice or more, even without doing real damage it has easily outperformed most Pokémon. It makes blind HO a disgustingly large threat. You cannot run a defensive mon with Mienfoo at 55+% usage without extreme risk of it being near redundant, even if Mienfoo gets burned Knock Off still allows it to carry its weight and then some, not to mention the scouting with U-Turn and recovery.

    Personally I like this meta. Yanma has a large number of checks, as I've said 100 times over. It poses a threat to raw HO more than the vast majority of mon, it's fast and hits hard. But again, a 4x weakness to rocks and some annoying weaknesses that a lot of Pokémon are capable of exploiting, as well as inability to effectively break some of the bulkier HO mon like Eviolite Ponyta. Clampearl is a threat for sure, it OHKOs a vast majority of the meta with one of its moves, but its drawbacks are p evident. Weak to priority (Oh look not only Murkrow uses prio guys), and takes heavy damage from most Pokémon as it tries to set up. It's a good Shell Smasher but it holds all the drawbacks of other Smashers. Paralysis, Prio, heavy damage on setup, potential to be outsped by some fast scarfers like Missy.

     
    Last edited: Sep 17, 2013
  31. Aurist

    Aurist I do not jump for joy. I frolic in doubt.

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    Says the one who is like "Chikorita and Shroomish are viable pokemon". I explained why Mienfoo is broken and all you've replied with is "usage usage usage"/"lesser used pokemon". My teams I build in LC at the moment are fairly standard, you're the one trying to use gimmick pokemon that counter a strategy that isn't even in LC at the moment.

    It's insane that we still have to argue about a pokemon that was Genesect and Tornadus-T in one pokemon, one that completely ruins any strategy of Balanced in the tier. I'm done talking about that.

    @ Weavile, it feels sort of like you're the only one who doesn't want to see a Yanma and/or Clamperl suspect. Other ppl can feel free to prove me wrong there tho... but yeah. Clamperl isn't -that- weak to priority as it takes things like Timburr's Mach Punch without dying. Its biggest problem is the like 2 scarfers that outspeed it. and Yanma really has very few checks outside of Munchlax.
     
  32. Artemisa

    Artemisa Well-Known Member

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    Mienfoo only has 4 moves which it can use. It's not that brainless though. You can't just spam Fighting moves when you have a ghost and sometimes you can't u-turn out and are forced to decide whether to KO or get fucked by a switch in. To many situations go inside the Mienfoo user.

    Sand: If Drilbur runs LO priority attacks will destroy it and it's not like it has good defenses. It can't switch in at all and it only has like 6 usuable attacks. Shit like Bronzor and Shroomish walls it. Chikorita was mentioned because it's actually creative and stops Drilbur :] Oo look I'm using creativity to stop a threat in sand teams!!! Sand teams suffer Type deficiencies and it's hard to make one that covers almost every type. That's why things like Snover, Mienfoo, Tirtouga, Murkrow, Missy, and much more can spam moves.

    Oops forgot to discuss Eviolite Drilbur: It misses on 1HKO's just to sacrifice for defenses, really pick your poison, get fucked by priority and use LO or use eviolite and miss out on KO's.

    Mienfoo stops Scraggy, defensive Timburr, Shelmet can set up spikes, foongus can clear smog it, ScarfKrow/Doduo/Taillow/Mienfoo can all beat it FeatherDance Krow, cottonee, Vullaby, and much more can beat or pressure Scraggy. Scraggy is forced to pick Drain Punch and HJK the former which is weaker and the latter which has 15% chance to miss and causes mind games if your opponent has a ghost.

    I'll try to expand more if I can think of more stuff.

    Oo he came back for more:

    I'm pretty sure Genesect was banned due to it's versatility. Tornadus-T had regenerator which is like the only thing in common that it has with Mienfoo. Bad examples :[

    Mini Edit: Genesect also had download / a stab u-turn / greater movepool / ability to go mix / great typing / had Rock Polish / and good stats + pretty fast. Pretty wierd comparison. e_e

    Iirc you said Tornadus-T wasn't even broken .-.

    Shroomish and Chikorita are pure grass types which means they resist ground and are neutral to psychic which Foongus isn't. They also have better thats overall compared to foongus. Shroomish is blessed with Spore and is a poison absorber that gains HP o:

    What does Mankey and Machop do that Mienfoo doesn't and better. :]
     
    Last edited: Sep 17, 2013
  33. Pokemon United

    Pokemon United Member

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    Honestly, with the changes Gen 6 is going to bring along, we should just keep the meta as it is. I mean, we've put up with it for 2 months already, whats the problem with putting up with it for four more weeks? A mienfoo and sand unban at this point would just throw this tier into chaos. I mean, since there's no other viable choices, we would see mienfoo/ hippo/ drillbur all at like 50% usage or more.
     
  34. Artemisa

    Artemisa Well-Known Member

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    Not really porygon would still be up there along with chinchou / foongus / timburr / Murkrow / Missy / Scraggy / Abra / Ferro / Dwebble / Lileep / etc etc. The point in changes is to leave try and leave the meta as fine as possible. If we used that logic people wouldn't bother playing old gens.
     
  35. Aurist

    Aurist I do not jump for joy. I frolic in doubt.

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    i didn't realise that HJK, Drain punch, u-turn, stone edge, substitute, baton pass, knock off, payback, swords dance, bulk up, taunt, and fake out were 4 moves.

    One second you're like "you just want to use unviable mons" (like way to miss the point of what I was saying) and then you're like "im being creative using [unviable mons] to beat [broken things]". You've contradicted yourself so much in this thread.

    Also Genesect, for the record. Pretty sure a combination Genesect-TornadusT would be broken in OU. lol. My point is it combines the raw power and free momentum of the two, but on an LC scale, and also with more utility, no SR-neutral/weak, and less relying on coverage, though U-turn actually provides it fairly immaculate coverage anyway.

    dynamicpunch/immune to spore nothing honestly worthwhile. but your latching on my flippant mentioning of 2 niche pokemon when i didn't even use them as an argument, is weak af.

    It's insane to me the way you argue that "LC is too centralised" while saying "we should unban Mienfoo and sand".

    The only things I think you're right about, is that Yanma and Clamperl are broken. And that Scraggy might not be broken in this meta (maybe).
     
  36. Artemisa

    Artemisa Well-Known Member

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    I mean on a moveslot: Only four moves.

    Genesect is so different from Mienfoo its stupid:

    Gensect has stab U-turn / Versatility / Download / Great typing / good speed / Wider Movepool / Rock Polish / Can mix sets / and has good stats

    Tornadus just has regen

    ?_? stop please.

    The same way you say I contradict myself is the same way you do except I back mine up. Tell me what I said about Shroomish and Chikorita isn't true. If you don't see it I will show you. You said you wanted to see a diversity in team building, instead of using foongus I decide to use Shroomish or Chikorita for Foongus and I get a ground resistance :OO

    I can tell you never read my post. I said idgaf about overcentralization not that I want a variety. Overcentralization is a bad word in LC because it doesn't fit. Please tell me you know why :[

    You preach about other Fighting types tell me what's so good about them, don't just say they are unique or they have a "niche" atleast tell me. Dynamic Punch is ok, but HJK is stronger and Machop isn't fast enough. Mienfoo overall is better than Mankey and it's longevity is far greater. The only good fighting types are Riolu / Timburr / Scraggy / Mienfoo everything else is pretty bad.

    Atleast I backed up my points on Shroomish and really you can't deny what I said isn't true. :]

    OU =/= LC don't compare them especially with pokemon that aren't like Mienfoo.
     
  37. Mylo Xyloto

    Mylo Xyloto if your world falls apart, i'd start a riot

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    I'll comment on Mienfoo and Yanma later but for now I want to post on Clamperl. After a few days testing DST Clamperl, I must say its insanely powerful. I've been using it with Encore Wynaut and its just so stupidly easy to Encore a pokemon locked into stealth rock or a weak nve move and just Smash with Clamperl. The fact that even Munchlax falls to its knees is just absurd. Lets take a look at what people use to check perl. 1) Priority, priority imo is a bit risky since you need prior damage as something like Timburr's Mach Punch falls to ko. 2) Sash Abra. 3) Scarf Missy (to an lesser extent other 18 spe pokemon with a scarf.) Thats about it, not only does Clamperl set up with ease it sweeps with ease. With p. nice defences it can actually tank one hit and then smash&sweep. Thats just my opinion. Its broken, either Clamperl should go or DeepSeaTooth.
     
  38. Artemisa

    Artemisa Well-Known Member

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    Wynaut + anything is easy to set up in general, it's just hard to stop which is why it's broken. Every standard team should have a form of priority or something to outspeed. That's why I said unban Krow, Foo, Sand since the rushers outspeed Clamperl, and krow and Foo have priority. Btw the meta before the unbans and the current are the same except the current one has more DW abilities which made some unviable pokemon viable also move tutors in BW 2.
     
  39. Rioku

    Rioku Not again.

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    I did find one surefire 100% check to a smashed Clamperl in the form of LO FakeFeint Meowth. In all it isn't a bad Pokémon either as it checks Abra too and, if played right, 2HKO Missy. Outside of that... nothing guarantees a ded perl, nothing. I'm not one to judge on Krow as it was banned before I started playing LC, I think, but I did use Mienfoo in the past, and it was stupid powerful with Chinchou. VoltTurn destroyed everything with Foo. At least now you can have a fast scarfed fighter or go bulky fighter, and not have an insanely fast one that can pull off pseudo bulk because of a ludicrous ability.
     
  40. Artemisa

    Artemisa Well-Known Member

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    If you are referring to volt turn, you realize those feed off momentum. A way is stopping that is by cutting it off, example: Porygon absorbs volt switch from Chinchou and walls it to hell and back, Larvesta needs a spinner and is incredibly slow so you will probably take a hit before you u-turn, Mienfoo has the most success in Volt Turn as a scarfer due to it outspeeding the whole tier bar 18 choice scarfers or 14 Shell Smashers. Another about being a choice scarfer is its ability to revenge and pressure with u-turn. However, this is also a bad thing because it forces Mienfoo to lock into one move, so if it's locked into the wrong move you will lose momentum and will have to start over.

    Since VoltTurn teams feed off offensive pressure, they do not have that many walls in the team so they do not have any switch ins to common threats. To run an effective VoltTurn team you will have to be precise with prediction, if not the offensive pressure you have built up will disappear in a blink of an eye. You will not win a game by just spamming Volt Switch and U-turn, you will have to use other moves and still run support like any other team to be effective. It's not brainless shit, it requires prediction which we all know is a two way street.