[ADV] 3rd Gen Discussion

Discussion in 'Past Gens Discussion' started by Lady Umb, Sep 3, 2010.

  1. shrapn3l

    shrapn3l Member

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    1) BP is by no means broken. I have never lost to a single BP team played by anyone since this whole debacle has come into focus. Now, I don't think IPL is like a Pokemon God or whatever (like some people do) but I'm sure he can do just as well with ANY solid team on the ladder. Most of the people laddering on the PO server are trash and use terrible teams with incredibly outdated (circa 05) strategies. Seriously, how was BOAH the most popular tyranitar and shadow ball curselax the most common snorlax (and without magneton support!) in recent months? However, even more ridiculous than the people complaining about BP are the people suggesting absurd "counters" to it like cb Arcanine... Just put whirlwind on your skarmorys. put sleep talk on something with decent attack power. have pokemon that can dish out a good amount of damage QUICKLY. everything you need to beat a BP team, you should have on your team anyway. the only kind of team that i guess you couldn't describe as inherently "bad" but still loses to BP regularly is a full stall team, because they are too slow. to beat a BP team, you just have to outpace their defense boosts and keep smeargle out until you can kill it. you may not be successful EVERY TIME, but you can never be 100% successful against any team. If BP teams DO end up getting limited, i really hope it's not some stupid limitation like only allowing an arbitrary number of BP users on a team. how is 4 pokemon with BP any more broken than 3? the only thing that makes BP teams difficult to beat anyway is smeargle.

    2) Celebi isn't even that good anymore. Tyranitar/Skarmory/HP Bug Flygon/phazing Zapdos/Dugtrio etc. are on a ridiculous number of teams. If you don't have Magtrio support you are never going to sweep with Celebi, and without Magneton (or hp fire, which few people use...) you aren't going to Baton Pass. Celebi honestly doesn't even do a very good job of countering Gengar unless you load it up on Sdef evs with a calm nature. Honestly, you are probably going to get more use out of Heal Bell or a Reflect or Light Screen Celebi than anything else. I wouldn't use Celebi at all unless it is on a BP team or a Stall team, or unless I'm passing Swords Dances or something, because Swords Dance Celebi teams can still be fairly brutal.

    3) Jirachi beats the shit out of Blissey. Depending on its moveset, you can counter it with Metagross, Snorlax, Tyranitar, Swampert, Claydol, or Steelix. Celebi can STALL it for a while, but that's pretty much it. Otherwise you have to revenge it with a fast EQer (Aerodactyl, Flygon, Salamence) or pick it off with Dugtrio or something. If it's Reflect/CM/Wish/Psychic Jirachi, then it is going to be ridiculously easy to stall out. You can set up spikes on it and get rid of it over and over again with Skarm if you give it some Sdef. The most threatening Jirachi sets are definitely cm/thunder/psychic/wish because it can generally wear down Swampert/Tyranitar/Metagross/some Snorlax before dying and Claydol isn't really that common, and a 3 attack CM Jirachi coupled with Dugtrio can also win pretty consistently. Jirachi is probably the closest thing to a "broken" pokemon in ADV, but its counters and checks are fairly common and any given team generally has 2 or more of them anyway.

    On the subject of leads: people are leading Skarm because everyone is making such a fuss about BP. I have a full anti-bp team (that i never use because it is unnecessary) that i lead skarm on. for the most part, if you are leading skarm, you are going to switch turn 1. However tauros doesn't beat skarm at all. and anyone that keeps regice in against an aerodactyl or salamence in against a metagross is an idiot.
     
  2. Meteor64

    Meteor64 TM1337 Falcon Punch

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    I love it when people go "so and so is no.2 on the ladder with BP, it must be broken!"
    Who the fuck is number one then?
     
  3. Ginku

    Ginku Member

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    Someone who plays more?

    (don't interpret too much into this I'm just clarifying)
     
  4. Meteor64

    Meteor64 TM1337 Falcon Punch

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    I was merely incinuating that whatever team is no.1 is NOT a BP team, so nobody can really use that claim to say BP is broken when theres a non-BP team above it :P
     
  5. CALLOUS

    CALLOUS Active Member

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    An observation from someone who read this entire thread from start to finish (and yes I literally read every single post) is that many people here have serious attitude and ego problems and post their point of view with a very snobby and condescending tone. We should be able to discuss or even debate a topic without massive ego trips which is a skill many of the teenagers who play this game lack entirely. It is also extremely clear that only a very small handful of people here know how to actually play Adv at a high level. Nonetheless, my two cents...

    Banning of Magneton or Dugtrio is absolutely ridiculous. Magneton even more so. Magneton is a terrible and underpowered pokemon if your opponent does not have one of two extremely specific pokemon (Forre and Skarm) and is almost a liability in this case. Magneton, like other pokemon (Charizard and any Belly Drummer, Houndoom, Jynx, etc) is high risk high reward which is what makes it balanced. Besides building your teams with trappers in mind, as you should do with any important or common part of the metagame, trappers can be countered or even used against your opponent by predicting well and playing mind games. You can make plays such as double switches that will give you a huge momentum advantage, especially with set up pokemon. Banning Dugtrio is equally silly. Just like Magneton it is high risk high reward. For all it's strengths it is extremely frail, vulnerable to spikes, has a very hard time switching into many things, doesn't trap flyers or pokemon with levitate (making it high variance in terms of what teams it's good or not good against. It's excellent against other teams and beyonf mediocre against others), and is pretty easy to play around once you know it's there and even beforehand if you're genuinely good at the game. A pokemon should be banned if it is overpowered or imbalanced. A pokemon should NOT be banned because it is annoying, unfun, or because you dislike it or don't like playing against it. Neither of them are overpowered by any stretch (not even close, they both have terrible stats and many weaknesses) and they are certainly not anywhere remotely close to imbalanced. For all their strengths they have at least as many weaknesses. That, by definition, makes them very balanced. The best words to describe these pokemon besides annoying and frustrating at times are absolutely "high variance" and "high risk/high reward" as stated above, and they should clearly not be banned. Playing better, not crying for a ban, will solve the issue.
     
  6. Aston

    Aston Member

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    Why are people trying to change a gen that has been rigorously tested and standard for all these years? :|
     
  7. User Name

    User Name Life is a maze

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    @Aston
    Are they?
    It seems most people've gotten past that already. XD