^True dat. Blissey can't even break the Sub with Seisme Toss. Tyranitar can do something if it didn't Calm Mind too much.
Your somewhat right. Blissey would need to CM up herself or utilize wish + protect otherwise, Jirachi will eventually beat her. Metagross must be CB'd or it loses, but yeah, Dark Types beat it 100%. I love using Celebi. Supporter, Baton Passer, even a sweeper. Very versatile.
I don't think Blissey @ Wish/Protect counters him. With -1 def spec, what will happens with serene grace, she's "dead". And, as I said, what pokemon can counter the SubCM with Thunderbolt/Psychic ? Celebi CM. Nothing else
I feel like a majority of people posting in this thread have never played adv before. first off, "lol" at the OP about Duggy and Maggy being banned. MagneTrio is a classic core in the adv metagame. Its not being banned. Its not cheap. Its not broken. Its a perfectly viable strategy. You don't play Adv the same way you play DPP. Its tons different. I can't really explain it because im really tired but its a very different metagame, even for being so similar. Also, since you people are talking about Jirachi, CM/Wish/Reflect/Psychic is a very gay set. And since a poster a couple of posts said "Celebi is versatile" congratulations on discovering one of the most centralizing forces of the adv metagame.
oh wow first off reflect jira is one of the biggest faggots in the entire ADV metagame. second if your team is magtrio weak, you have a crappy team, end of discussion. third before you have a discussion of the "adv metagame", you should have some knowledge or atleast understand that this is not the 4th gen, your understandings of what should be is not even close.
The problem is: the discussion about Maggy and Duggy ended. ^ Now, we're talking about Jirachi and Celebi.
Celebi is probably one of the best grass types in ADV, but don't forget Sceptile, with Leaf Blade and T-Punch, it's a really good Pokemon.
I don't see T-P's utility, really. You have Leaf Blade to hit Suicune and the bulky waters very hard. It must do lol damages to Skarmory, I think. >_> Sceptile with a Focus Punch/Leaf Blade/Substitute/Leech Seed set must be cool to use. The SubEndeavor is nice, too. Celebi is one the best ADV pokemon. It can stall, sweep, baton pass ect..
lol thunderpunch is special meaning it does a lot to skarmory, although i prefer to run hp fire on sceptile to i can hit celebi, other sceptile and magneton as well as skarmory. focus punch is nice too but celebi comes in calm minds once or twice then baton passes to something gay like zapdos and poops on your whole team which is why i generally like hp fire the most.
Well I use T-Punch on Sceptile since it deals massive damage to Skarmory, and I add HP Ice to kill Salamence, since D-Claw is shit.
Best first post I've seen for a while. Anyway, make sure you actually know what you're talking about before posting in this topic. There's far too many posts that are utterly ridiculous. Perhaps you should talk about what are easily the best two Pokemon to be left with at the end of the game: CurseLax and CroCune. CurseLax is, in my opinion, the most dangerous, as it can survive Explosions a lot better than CroCune can.
Well, I know T-P is special, but without doing the calc., I know it does like 43%-54%. A 2HKO. While, Skarmory OHKOes with Drill Peck. Sceptile is a cool pokemon, anyways. Goofball, get the fuck out of here. Newbies like you don't have anything to do in threads like this. Navy, I already saw that rule and I support it. :3 Finally, Crocune is beastly. CurseLax is moar beastly. If you let one of them setup, it's gonna be hard for you to take them down. :3 P.S: Snory for Ubers :3 You can't edit every post in the thread anyways :D
loling tpunch does 56.9% - 67.1% to skarmory with 252 hp/0spdef @ impish. so its enough to scare it off. also yes snorlax is very big. but less big than machamp.
Nah, Wailord is the biggest. LOL. Actually I really like what Crokou does, with Tbolt and Crunch, but Snorlax and Blissey scares it a bit. And Skarm hadn't Roost, so it didn't like Tpunch at all.
why the fuck would anyone use crunch on raikou why would you use tpunch on sceptile when hp ice/fire covers way much more and makes sceptile a larger threat lol at calling goofball a "newbie" and the 2 legend rule is fucking stupid. i have never seen a serious competitive tournament or player who has ever enforced this rule
Crunch for Raikou, cause it gets walled by Celebi when carrying HP Grass, and HP Grass allows it to hit Swampert. T-punch for Sceptile is mainly for Skarmory, as I explained before, I prefer HP Ice, cause it OHKO Salamence.
Crokou is Thunderbolt, Calm Mind, Rest, Sleep Talk. You're obviously not talking about that. The pretty much worse case scenario against Celebi switching in for Calm Mind, HP Grass, Thunderbolt, Substitute Raikou with over 75% health is that it can only take off 8/10 of Psychic's PP before being defeated. That's only Calm Mind Celebi. Using crunch instead is much more of a weakness when you can't OHKO Swampert after 1CM or 0CM and spikes damage. Hell, you can't even KO Dugtrio easily. Not to mention all those other ground types. I'd trade in minor difficulty to not getting the right KOs any day.
Id say one should think of a check to Dugtrio and Magneton there not that hard rly its just a matter of Pursuit and Celebi (As long as Dugtrio don't use HP bug ofc) You should also at least give a balanced or HO team a go, I find them far more fun than just stall, stall, stall.
can we stop calling cm/rest/sleep talk/filler sets "cro-", it's pretty dumb. not to mention that set you posted gets slapped like a bitch by half the metagame.
Lots of players use the "cro-" prefix even if it's not very intuitive. It has adapted to mean a moveset structure closely resembling CroCune. I don't think it's dumb at all for players who know what CroCune is and can therefore deduce approximately what a set is on another pokemon. It's just a quick way of saying things. If someone said Crokou, I would generally think the set that closest resembles the CroCune set. And I have heard most people refer to it as Calm Mind, Rest, Sleep Talk, Thunderbolt instead of Rest, Sleep Talk, Filler, Filler being called that. I guess I should have said it's generally thought of as Calm Mind, Rest, Sleep Talk, Thunderbolt though.
i dislike cro- sets unless they are named CroCune because they aren't Cro- sets. They weren't made by Cromat so how could they be? o _o you would call a trap passing Smeargle chaoSmeargle (chaosbreon is the umbreon set on smogon's adv page). you wouldnt call a sub + coverage moves <pkmn>boah.
Cro- doesn't imply it has to be made by Cromat. Just like people use the term "metagame" in different senses. Something is generally allowed to evolve multiple meanings. I don't think one should assume some name/prefix has to have one meaning exclusively. The fact is they could be called that and it would make somewhat sense to people who know those sets. At the end of the day, it's a choice for people to follow whatever naming systems they want with whatever informal built-in logic. I'm guessing whatever naming system the majority of people support is considered the correct one. I think you could easily argue both ways over this example though.
I love you alan for post #45 >____> I can say that using cro(anythingbutcune) would have blown ass in third gen, and reflect jirachi might survive a few turns longer becaus of surprise. However, third gen seems more stable than 4th gen(har har), especially with all the time it's had, so these new sets all feel pretty stupid. Why make a new set to surprise people, when, with a small amount of dedication, that change will be walled even easier than its original set? For example, the first few Gyarados and DDTars I ran into didn't carry Taunt, so Skarmory walled them mercilessly for it. How is Vaporeon? I know it was a fantastic Cleric, but I'd never used it. What beats it, what does it wall, and what does its job better/worse(and why should I use those choices)? I'm not asking for a blurb from the Smogon analysis page so much as trying to start a small discussion.
I always found Vappy to be really lackluster. :( To me it was like a bad Suicune (with wish but whatever, ill just use blissey). It was set up bait for way too much and I just didn't like it that much. Water absorb is nice I guess but it just wasnt my cup of tea.
I find it fucking hilarious someone wanted Dugtrio banned. Even more so that they also wanted Magneton banned. EVEN more so that the person claiming these two to be broken hasn't posted in the Shandera suspect thread. Different gens sure but still. Shit's great. I'm kind of surprised no one said SubSkarm. Or was he only popular because in NB Sub blocked Rapid Spin? How many people still play Gen 3 on Beta/whatever it's called now? Is it dead or what?
As an old time adv player, I'm going to have to disagree on the Duggie/Maggie ban idea. They aren't broken in any way (especially Maggie). Dug is kind of annoying but he does take up a team slot and is nearly impossible to switch in. I don't think anything should be banned in adv, it's pretty much as good as it'll get.
I don't play in the sense that I just sit on the ladder all day, but I'm up for a match whenever. It's either dead or you are going to be battling scrubs. Most people are more interested in 5th gen anyway.
Crobat (M) @ Leftovers Trait: Inner Focus EVs: 252 HP / 68 Def / 188 SDef Impish Nature (+Def, -SAtk) - Rest - Sleep Talk - Screech - Sludge Bomb Look! It's CroBat! XD On the Jirachi topic, I find a CM/Wish set is a more effective sweeper, the only things that stop it is Swampert and Blissey, really (and Houndoom if you run Fire Punch). Perhaps thats just me. But Jirachi is THE best special sweeper of Adv IMO, it can easily beat Raikou 1-on-1. In fact, its probably one of the best Pokemon of Adv, with the amazing amount of versatility it has, and I'm surprised its not in the top 10 in usage. It should at least be in a similar place to Celebi, since they both run sweeper sets and support sets, with the same stats, and a plethora of decent options to use. Celebi is inferior as a CM sweeper, but its good at BPing, so I wont knock it there. Jirachi can't do that, either. As for Duggyton banning, I can't believe people considered it in the first place, but I wont go into that. I'm gonna introduce a new topic- leads. Why are people being really stupid with their leads? EVERY lead I see is one of 4 things- -Salamence- Which is a decent lead, but waaaaaaaay overrated IMO. Its's completely useless against any lead with Ice Beam, which is quite a few. -Aerodactyl- Also a decent but overrated lead. It rarely kills other leads, it just scares them off. After that, you have to rely on switching in to get KOs- something Aero isn't fantastic at. -Metagross- Possibly the best lead I've seen others using. Although it still loses to Salamence, despite Clear Body, it scares off everything else. -Skarmory- This is the one that really annoys me. I've see far too many. I will now explain why Skarmory is a crap lead. 1- Magneton bait- Seriously, you're just asking for it if you use Skarmory as a lead. Unless you instantly switch to Dugtrio because you predict a Maggy switch (and thats seriously chancy), you're not going to do anything. ANYTHING. You can Whirlwind on the first turn, to scout for Maggy, but then what? If Maggy shows his face, you're gonna have to switch out anyway, putting you at a disadvantage. If he doesn't, then you've just sucked up an attack, and from the next point I make below, thats not good. 2-Ridiculously poor stack up against other leads- I'm going to use the Lead Pokemon article from smogon for reference here. These are what all decent leads have to offer when faced with Skarmory. Salamence- Flamethrower, then watch and cry as Sala DDs up and sweeps your team. Zapdos- STAB Thunderbolt from Base 125 Sp. Atk. gl there Aero- Ok, Aero does nothing to Skarm. Gengar- Thunderbolt, Hypnosis. Sceptile- Leech Seed, HP Fire, ThunderPunch. HP Flying wont KO Sceptile when Skarm has no Atk EVs. Tauros- Body Slam can actually screw Skarm over with Paralysis, and it deals about 25%, which isn't half bad, seeing as Skarm can't do anything except Spike and Whirlwind (gl with HP Flying after Intimidate) Slaking- Focus Punch CAN put a dent in Skarm, but you HAVE to switch afterwards, so... not good for fatty in this case. Jolteon- Read Zapdos, where it says "125", replace with "110". Ninjask- Can't do shit to Skarm, ok. Milotic- STAB Surf and Hypnosis. HP Flying will do jack to Milo. Metagross- Getting a MM Attack boost screws Skarm over. Other than that, it's a bit of a stalemate, since neither can really hurt the other. Swampert- STAB Surf, or even just Ice Beam, and it has nothing to fear from Skarm. Regice- Thunderbolt. And Thunder Wave, to an extent. Porygon2- Yet again, Thunderbolt, Thunder Wave. Snorlax- FB Lax can dent it up, though no-one uses it. Body Slam annoys it, too. So, heres a list of things Skarmory leads off well against- Aerodactyl Slaking Ninjask Heres a list of things Skarmory loses to- Salamence Zapdos Gengar Sceptile Tauros (sort of) Jolteon Milotic Metagross (sort of) Swampert Regice Porygon2 Snorlax (sort of) Starmie isn't on the list, but a modified Lead Starmie also beats Skarm. Which list is bigger, do you think? Anyway, thats my rant on Skarmory Leads. The other thing that annoys me is that from that list of lead, only a few are actually seen, despite a few being amazingly effective. Tauros in particular is underrated- people view it as a mini-CBMence, but in fact it's much different. Nothing really likes a CB-STAB Body Slam (except ghosts), particularly with paralysis. It's also faster than Mence and can take it on 1-on-1 in a contest of leads. Regice is probably the best bulky lead in the game, yet I seem to be the only person to use it. All he's really scared of is Snorlax and Metagross. Not even Aero's Rock Slide will guarantee a OHKO on him.
(only read first post) I don't think magtrio is any more broken than skarmbliss. :x If you want to talk about broken stuff, how about baton pass chain teams? IPL is #2 with one and hasn't lost a single game heh. I don't use a BP team as lame as his but it's hard to beat too. (only 3 baton passers on mine)
Come on you asked for it Anyway, BP is kinda crazy but I think if you really prepare for it it's probably not broken. just threw this in to not be off topic
BP isn't broken. It's perfectly beatable if you're ready for it and don't lose your head. Be prepared for Smeargle. Make sure you know when its gonna switch in. I always repeatedly WW with Skarm to scout for its ugly french face. Once Smeargle is gone, go for Ninjask. Choice Band Arcanine Extremespeed will put it in the range below where it can Substitute. CB Medicham can put a dent in it with Fake Out. CB Dodrio takes him on well with STAB Quick Attack, although no-one uses Dodrio anymore. Outside of priority, you're gonna have to rely on prediction to catch it when it switches in. If it gets in freely, no worries, just Phaze it away, since Smeargle should be dead and therefore can't Ingrain. I'm not going to mention Mr Mime, because if you don't have WW or Haze, I'd say your chances were slim from the start. Once Ninjask is gone, its really just about picking the team apart member by member. Vaporeon is the one you'll likely have most trouble with, but on its own, it's no problem.
In my opinion, they should limit BP to only 3 pokés. Mr.Mime can block any attempts of Roaring or Perish Songing, while Smeargle, after passed speed (which can be achieved by just spamming protect with ninjask), can block Whirlwind. The only way to stop this is using Haze, but if they use Umbreon (mean look + baton pass), you won't be able to switch and Haze the BP chain.