This is a list of Pokemon that were very good at Ubers before but just dies down as the ages went by. These Pokemon that were usable in the 4th Generation are unfortunately not as good today as they used to be. Deoxys-D Why was it good? While Deoxys-D was never the best defender in the world, it was still considered damn good. It had everything it needed to stall a team out (besides HP, but it had Recover!). Toxic/Night Shade/Recover/Taunt was really cruel back in the day since nothing that wasn't a Steel Type or strong enough to 2HKO it could get over it. It was also one of the most irritating Pokemon to deal with with the infamous AgiliToxic set and Cosmic Power set. It was never invincible, but, again, it was damn good. What Happened? The metagame just got too strong, and the other brave defenders got bulkier than ever before. And what did Deoxys get? Zilch. Life for Deoxys-D was just too hard as he needed more and more support to stall one Pokemon. When the age of power rose, novelty died down, so AgiliToxic and Cosmic Power weren't used, and the Lead set was just dead. With the rise of Ferrothorn, Chansey, and Multiscale Lugia exceeding past Deoxys-D's spectrum, there was no hope left for it as it was forced out of the tier. Is there Hope? That depends on the situation. As a defender, as long as the defensive behemoths are in, Deoxys-D is out. However, it still makes a good bulky lead and staller (some of the defensive Pokemon can't do this), so there's a silver lining to its usage. No matter what they say about Deoxys-D, the line will still continue; it's still damn good. Heatran Why was it good? What Happened? Is there hope? Ludicolo Why was it good? What Happened? Is there hope? Lucario Why was it good? What Happened? Is there hope? Mew Why was it good? What Happened? Is there hope? Parasect Why was it good? "Real men use Lanturn" That was the quote that described the brave soul who used Lanturn in OU during Generation 4. Same scenario with Parasect in Ubers. Normally a horrible Pokemon, Parasect's Dry Skin, Spore, and okay defenses allowed it to be *gasp!* usable in the Uber environment where Kyogre was everywhere and X-Scissor was kryptonite to most Pokemon. It was a master counter to most Rain teams, it was a nightmare to most Phychic and Dark types because of X-Scissor (trust me, there were a lot), and SubSeed was nasty to deal with once set up. It was the manly anti-metagame of the Uber environment. What Happened? Like the 1930s, the golden age has fallen. Parasect was just too hard to use and sometimes was considered dead weight. Later on, Sun Teams' popularity rose and Parasect, as you can guess, loses every time against it. People also decided to use other faster, stronger, and more efficient SubSeeders that could take out threats, like Shaymin-S, Ludicolo, and Jumpluff. That was Generation 4. Generation 5 was even worse to it. Generation 5 revived Sun teams to its max and introduced Ferrothorn, which was basically a Parasect 3.0. Because of the addition of other threats, Kyogre isn't as common as it originally was. These AND all of crises in Generation 4 that decided to pile onto Gen 5 made it faintly obvious that Parasect was to become extinct. Is there Hope? I don't think that there ever will be, not with all of the other Subseeders present and Ferrothorn existing. It works, but it doesn't work "well." Quagsire Why was it good? Quagsire was, and still might be, one of the truest of Kyogre counters. In a world where Kyogre was used in half of the Uber battles, People needed at least one thing to save and deal with. For some it was Quagsire. Quagsire had everything it needed to mess up the omnipresent amount of Rain teams. Okay defenses, STAB Earthquake and Waterfall, and awesome typing with immunities to two of the most common types in the metagame (Surf and Thunder), Quagsire was a bitch to handle if you didn't have a Shaymin-S. What Happened? Kyogre usage was chopped in half, so, consequentially, Quagsire's did too, Its purpose is to stop Kyogre. Now that Kyogre isn't used as much and the Uber metagame decided to punch it in the face with Ferrothorn and more offensive threats, Quagsire couldn't keep up, and the additions of Scald and Recover didn't make it up. Quagsire just wasn't as good as Pokemon like Chansey, and its usage died down dramatically. Is there Hope? Not really. The metagame is too powerful for Quagsire to be the defensive bastard that it was, and there are more defenders that outclass Quagsire in most ways. Poor derpface just won't come back :( Salamence Why was it good? Rayquaza's partner in crime. The infamous "Double Dance" combo. Rayquaza Jr. Salamence has so many names that it isn't funny. The fact that you basically have a second Rayquaza is crazy enough to work. It's a bit weaker, but still strong enough to dent a team once Rayquaza leaves. Plop it into an offensive team such as Sandstorm or Hyper-offense and you have an extra kill in your hands. What Happened? Every generation comes a new dragon; this generation brought four. The addition of Reshiram, Zekrom, and Kyurem-W and Kyurem-B broke Sally's heart because they possessed two things that it wants: sheer power and bulk. The fact that they lacked Dragon Dance is overshadowed by the fact that their base attack stats exceeds Salamence's by at least 15, which actually does make a difference. As for Sandstorm offense, Garchomp lives and Excadrill came to existence, who are in every way better than Salamence in both comparison and in battle. Salamence couldn't face the competition and declined in usage. In other news, the reason that Salamence also dropped was because it wasn't as good in the Overused tier as it used to be. Ferrothorn, Dragonite, Haxorus, Hydreigon, Genesect......the competition is too high. Because Salamence wasn't as broken as it was before, it was sent back down there. Is there Hope? Salamence is still used in Ubers, just not as much. A second Rayquaza is still unfair, and it got a buff with Moxie and Outrage + Roost, so it should get an increase in usage. You can use it if you're a Rayquaza fanatic, this is your best friend. It's also always been fun to kill things with a Pokemon that is from a lower tier too. Shedinja Why was it good? "Argh! I can't stand Kyogre and Palkia! I try everything but I can't stop them!" This is the common rant that a person would give back in the day while they never tried Shedinja. Because of Wonder Guard, Shedinja gets 12 immunities, giving it the ability to epically WALL an entire team if used right. Kyogre's Water Spout destroying you? Nope. Support Latias stopping you? Sit in front of its face. Rayquaza (without a Fire move) sweeping you? Derp. It had everything it needed with Will-O-Wisp, Swords Dance, Shadow Sneak, and two effective STAB moves for the tier. Any team not expecting the odds of Shedinja would be punished for the rest of eternity. What Happened? Team Preview happened. The surprise factor that Shedinja brings is now gone, so the originally-helpless opponent can prepare for the evil angel's arrival. As the metagame evolved with Ferrothorn, increased use of Sandstorm, and heightened usage of Entry Hazards and Stall, all Shedinja got was Final Gambit (thanks Gamefreak >__>) and nothing else. Wonder Guard in amazing, but it leaves you vulnerable to everything else, and guess who decided to give Shedinja 1 Hp??? >_______< Is there Hope? I really wish there was. The metagame changed so much that it is irreversible. However, it can be a good lead because it always messes up at least one Pokemon and is fun to use against noobs. Wobbuffet Why was it good? What Happened? Is there hope? Tell me what else to add on if you like this.
Shedinja was always a gimmick. Even with Wonder Guard, any form of passive damage would 1HKO it. And when Stealth Rock and Toxic Spikes came along in Gen 4, that really was its coffin nailed up. You should've included Mew. Uber for 4 Generations, now UU (OU on Smogon, who I think do tiers better than here).
I knew I forgot something really obvious (Mew). Once looking back, I also noticed I missed Jumpluff and Wobbuffet (Jumpluff is dead because of Whimsicott and Wobb got nerfed too much). I think Heatran, Ninjask, and Starmie need a mention too (Heatran isn't used as much as it used to be and Starmie and Ninjask were used a little bit before but not at all now). Anything else I should do?
No I don't you missed anything else, although Heatran is still viable since it's one of the best checks to defensive Ho-Oh. I play Ubers quite a lot, and I still see a fair few Heatrans around. Definitely mention Wobbufet, that thing was also Ubers but with the nerf to Encore it doesn't see much use even in OU now. I always thought it was overrated to be honest - any special Dark type or Physical Ghost type could easily beat it. Jumpluff - did anyone ever use that in Ubers? Shiftry is a superior Chlorophyll abuser, since it has better Attack power and STAB Sucker Punch. But w/e it's your thread. I don't know about Ninjask and Starmie - I only started playing PO in BW. I think your thread's very good - thorough analysis of why each Pokemon was used and why it fell out of favour. I think you should include a bit in Quagsire's section about Gastrodon - when Storm Drain got buffed, it took over Quagsire's role.
I've seen some Jumpluff last generation on teams with Groudon. It comes in when it predicts a set-up move then Encores to effectively make it useless for several turns until it switches out.
I remember Puregenius trolling mibuchiha with Jumpluff. Jumpluff is perhaps a good SubSeeder, but yeah Whimsicott outclasses it. Edit: Lucario can join this too i guess.
Actually, there is a guy with a very good shedinja team with a xatu and it DESTROYED me! But it's still gimmicky. You should mention Mew though, but other than that, great thread!
Not sure if this would count, but remember that DW Ubers strategy using hazards and lv.1 Roar Copycat Riolu?
It's Uber demotions. Riolu's trolling aspect was available this gen only, which is why it shouldn't be here.
This a good concept for a thread! Although to be frank Shedinja and Parasect were never good. There a few obscure ones missing, like Celebi who fell out in ADV and Metagross who used to be important during ADV too. Lucario is a good one to mention, being a solid sweeper back in DP but it just can't compete with Arceus now.
Lol I think that was me Xatu and sheddy serve as an excellent core for obvious reasons, but requires too much prediction to be considered reliable
I'm pretty sure the main reason that Quagsire sees no usage in Ubers now is because with the boost to Storm Drain in BW, Gastrodon is just a better Pokémon overall.
OK ill join since it talks about DPP Ubers Parasect was never good. It was a simple gimmick that still loses to what it was made to counter much like primeape who was the inferior heracross Quagsire does actually very well vs all kyogre only taking 41-48 from Specs Ice beam. Sadly, He was replaced by gastrodon who is set uo bait for 252 hp Sub CM kyogre which seems to have gone extinct Deoxys D was never good and never good against stall since you get your toxic spikes spun off by forretress then Stossed by blissey. Even then you have to win every 50 / 50 against Blissey in a best case scenario Salamence wasn't very good since Rayquaza + Lucario was arguably better than Ray + Salamence. You trade the abiliity to kill Scarf Dialga for Scarf Palkia but with WObb i have found LUcario is easier to set up which is how most mences were set up Shedinja is actulaly very good considering most teams are offensive with Gira o and not too hard to spin on. Some teams don't even have a spin blocker. Tyranitar is very rare as is hippo and abomasnow so Weather is never really the problem. Jolly shedinja outspeeds standard Uber Scizor so you can BP out of the pursuit. The only thing you really have to worry about is random toxics and Hidden POwers. While almost useless against Ubers Stall, Shedinja is certainly better than most give credit to On to the things people have mentioned. Jumpluff was absolute trash really. Being SR weak + 0 offensive presence really hurt it considering encore has 8 pp and sometimes 4 since most pokemon have pressure like lugia, dialga, and mewtwo. While no one really carries Grass pokemon outside Shaymin S, Ludicolo, and the incredibly rare celebi, Jumpluff is really dead weight against stall giving foretress an easy time Rapid Spinning then switching or setting up Toxic spikes Mew only became popular late Ubers as Deep Thought popularized the lead set. Before that it was strictly Latios / Mewtwo DS Momento / self destruct to Mew to Ray or Dialga. Being Pure psychic as well hurt as it offers little good resistances while being weak to common Dark and Bug and Ghost Moves Wobuffet was an amazing pokemon making any "Theorymon Like" team good on Ubers Ladder. Any Deoxys + Wobb + 2 set up pokemon + Scarf + Spin blocker / utility check could easily reach #1. Obviousliy it becomes dead weight when its last DR Doom but its support with encore + safeguard or the rarer tickle allowed wobbuffet + 1 other pokemon to do major damage to any team. Pokemon always give Wob ample time to set up since its incredibly difficult to 2hko so people will SR again on the Encore with Groudon allowing a Lucario / ray / mence / Darkrai to set up or be hit with a ton of damage from tickle pursuit. Scizor does 62.9% - 74% to standard support groudon without CB and very little investment outside of Adamant. Heatran is very good and was considering very anti meta when it first came into the Metagame. standard 252 252 + allowed him to wall Dialgas / Non FP palkias all day (idiots still use Earth Power though) while also shutting down common stall pokemon with a combination of speed, bulk, taunt, and burn / toxic. Blissey, most lugias, most Giras, forretress, Stalltwos, Latias (assuming Sun Thunder) are easily shut down by Heatrans. Later, it became a great check to Ho oH with Roar / HP rock when Ho ohs usually were Sub Roost and not 3 attacks Roost Lucario was the one of the most frightening things in DPP ubers to face as it hits incredibly hard at +2 with priiority. For instance, you only need SR plus 4 % or so on palkia to ensure a OHKO which isn't hard if you run kyogre. The only popular scarfer that lucario struggles against is Dialga. offense had a really hard time with SR + Spikes + +2 Lucario back in the day as Close Combat does like 97 minimum to standard RP Groudon and like 70 minimum to regular groudon who is going to have prior damage. Most Kyogres don't run Speed unless Scarf and even then you get hit with 70 minimum so its like palkia. most Giras were not max speed so crunch was a huge deal. Lugia could do somewhat well with Reflect but couldn't do anything except PP stall or whirlwind possibly allowing lucario +4. Jirachi was an incredible pokemon with wish + steel typing allowing him to come in on Dialga in the rain all day and some palkia in rain and some palkia in the sun. Thunderwave / Body slam / toxic crippled opposing pokemon while Wish Protect scouted and kept your team healthy. Most did have Uturn so you don't even lose any momentum. Skarmory was by far one of my favorites as it did so much. SPikes + taunt / toxic + Whirlwind is such a great combination for a lot of Ubers teams that rely on Groudon and Sun to hit skarmory. Most groudon do not carry over heat / fireblast anymore as they opt for SR / stonedge or dragon claw / EQ/ and Thunderwave or Roar. It blocked the common Gira 0 in Rain, deoxys a lead, groudon, blissey, lugia, jirachi, scizor, etc so its an incredible support pokemon and one i really recommend if you want to beat BOTW winner Iconic. Starmie is not very good as it finds little time to come in outside of revenging and cannot beat bold Gira A without specs. But, it can revenge a myriad of threats and hits hard with Rain boosted LO Hydro pump Ninjask was never used outside of the charizard users Kabutops / Kingdra get use with Swift Swim. Kingdra especially as Dragon Stab is incredible and it still does 50 to support groudon in Sun with hydro pump so rain will most likely be up until you get a kill Ludicolo has been made obsolete by ferrothorn which is sad because it literally shuts down so many things with protect / leech seed / rain with toxic spikes Abomasnow has been used to counter kyogre as well as revenge Ray / Mence with Ice shards but the SR wweak really prevents it from doing real work Tentacruel was a good lead i suggest people try. Do not use 252 252 + calm though Froslass / Cloyster were decent leads who "beat" deoxys e to some extent but were generally not used I can write more but thats all for now
How can anyone possibly forget Snorlax, the Pokémon that was once better than every single Über in existence barring Mew?
- I need to argue about quagsire in 2 things: Spoiler He was never good again Kyogre, because a Choice specs Water spout from kyogre just 2 OHKO him, and he can't outspeed back.[/HIDE] Scratch that, I forgot about water absorb :3 He is still viable in Ubers like a excelent special wall. You can not imagine how much calm-mind arceuses (bar grass), palkias, dialgas my quagsire had stall down... XD - Ludicolo is still very viable too like kyogre/groudon stopper (fuckin ferrothorn :\) but if in rain and behind a sub he can make an amazing sweeper. - I wonder why no one wrote about sableye, the best physical wall in the game wtf! He's the best extremekiller arceus counter, but can just shut down every attacker too (he can take a Rayquaza outrage, wow him and stall omg). Only exceptions are the fire/fighting types.
You could include stuff on Wobbuffet. He was such a broken trapper until Gothitelle came around. Although he was never really common and you do still see him... Sometimes... He was ubers, but now, sadly, is not. The mighty Wobba has fallen!
Actually Wobba is still pretty much as good in Ubers as he was back then, save for the Encore nerf no much has really changed for him, the new Uber legends all get CounterCoated easily. It's really the OU environment where Wobb doesn't succeed as he did.
Oh, how the undeniably best Pokémon in Generation I, as well as arguably the best Pokémon in Generation III has fallen... Hopefully its new Forme restores it back to its former glory in Generation VI.
You do realize it is still arguably the best special attacker in the game? And it has possibly the best move pool a special attacker could ask for. Gen 1 Mewtwo was the most powerful Pokémon ever, but I don't think its fallen from glory since Gen 2.
God damnit I'm a horrible procrastinator o____o I didn't know about Lucario back in the day and I'll add Heatran and Ludicolo. Ninjask was considered better in Ubers than OU in 4th Gen and Baton Pass teams were in fact used so it is worth a mention. Froslass and Cloyster aren't worth the mention and Salamence + Rayquaza was still a prime threat then and is completely worth the mention. Mew and Wobb got kicked out of Ubers so... Parasect WAS viable in Ubers, but I guess it was too novelty. If you RRRREEEEEAAAAALLLY want, I'll remove it. idk about Jumpluff because it did work. I'll think about it. Starmie and Tentacruel were absolute trash in Ubers (especially Starmie because Tentacruel could set up take hits AND spin, but not well). Abomasnow really didn't work either. Jirachi, Skarm, Kabutops, and Kingdra are still usable in Ubers so they won't be on the list. I'll get back to this. Sorry for not being here :(
heatran was good and heatran is still good he's very anti meta and can check a lot of common pokemon like dia, non eq ho oh, genesect, lati's in sun and some cm arceus deo d is still viable on stall as a spiker who can also stall break he is one of the few pokemon who can beat mewtwo as well and one of the few walls who isnt hazard bait thanks to taunt, which also lets him stall break