The problems I have with Mafia and Mafia review.

Discussion in 'Mafia' started by Mr.Anonymous, Sep 23, 2012.

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  1. Mr.Anonymous

    Mr.Anonymous Member

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    (22:07:32) Liam James Payne: Anyway back.
    (22:07:37) Jacze: I was gonna drop MA for school too.
    (22:07:41) Liam James Payne: I was talking to CM this morning about trivia review.
    (22:07:52) t3 the third: TR is REALLY slow now
    (22:08:09) t3 the third: I mean, TAs are having a hard time submitting questions
    (22:08:10) Jacze: shame.
    (22:08:23) Liam James Payne: t3 the third
    (22:08:34) Yuna: t3 the third
    (22:08:35) Yuna: flash
    (22:08:42) Liam James Payne: Because MOST of the TAdmins are in America.
    (22:08:44) t3 the third: we have like +6000 questoins and argh
    (22:08:45) Liam James Payne: *cough*
    (22:08:50) t3 the third: oh yeah most TAdmins are in America
    (22:08:55) t3 the third: and the rest are in Europe
    (22:08:59) t3 the third: I'm the only one in Asia
    (22:09:00) t3 the third: :<
    (22:09:05) t3 the third: what yun
    (22:09:08) t3 the third: a
    (22:09:13) Liam James Payne: They need to stop getting people from America only.
    (22:09:49) t3 the third: then again
    (22:09:54) t3 the third: we don't have anybody to hire
    (22:09:56) t3 the third: I mean
    (22:10:01) t3 the third: no nominations no nothing
    (22:10:09) CBTerrakion: get an ocn tadmin
    (22:10:10) Yuna: yes
    (22:10:14) Yuna: also
    (22:10:20) CBTerrakion: and your forgeting abdelrahman
    (22:10:24) Yuna: (20:12:05) Liam James Payne: They need to stop getting people from America only.
    (22:10:27) CBTerrakion: an egyptian
    (22:10:27) Liam James Payne: *you're.
    (22:10:28) Yuna: SO MUCH
    (22:10:35) Yuna: props for grammar nazi-ing
    (22:10:37) Yuna: also hi Jacze
    (22:10:44) Jacze: I was MA
    (22:10:47) Liam James Payne: Like MOST of the mafia admins are in America.
    (22:10:47) Jacze: and british
    (22:10:55) Jacze: Bebbz is british
    (22:10:57) t3 the third: ^
    (22:11:00) Liam James Payne: When I needed a MA there was no one on.
    (22:11:04) Yuna: ^
    (22:11:06) CBTerrakion: my friend misao missed a question due to that americanization
    (22:11:26) t3 the third: saltopus is French but in the States...
    (22:11:37) t3 the third: and I'M THE ONLY ONE IN ASIA? :X
    (22:11:38) t3 the third: or idk
    (22:11:48) Yuna: t3 is like
    (22:11:51) Yuna: the only asian MA
    (22:11:53) Yuna: are you???
    (22:11:56) Fegelein: So I made a new Youtube channel
    (22:11:56) t3 the third: Asia under-represented
    (22:12:03) t3 the third: I think I am
    (22:12:05) Yuna: lul
    (22:12:08) Fegelein: I'm the only Welsh Mafia Player
    (22:12:09) Trosh: T3, thats like saying the Netherlands are under-represented
    (22:12:10) Yuna: o k
    (22:12:15) CBTerrakion: why FEGELEIN FEGELEIN FEGELEIN
    (22:12:18) Liam James Payne: Like honestly.
    (22:12:22) Yuna: asia is a continent
    (22:12:23) t3 the third: I mean
    (22:12:25) Yuna: trosh you nub
    (22:12:27) t3 the third: Asia is HUGE
    (22:12:30) t3 the third: liek
    (22:12:33) Yuna: HUUUGE
    (22:12:35) Trosh: Africa is also huge
    (22:12:35) t3 the third: half the world population?
    (22:12:36) Liam James Payne: The reason TR is slow is because of the TAdmins being in America.
    (22:12:36) Yuna: huger than america
    (22:12:38) Trosh: Antartica is also huge
    (22:12:43) Yuna: huge population on PO
    (22:12:45) Fegelein: I always thought Irma was too new to be MA
    (22:12:45) Yuna: we mean
    (22:12:48) Yuna: ikr
    (22:12:49) fitzyhbbe changed names and is now known as Colonel Sanders.
    (22:12:49) Trosh: and its got like loadz uf penguinz
    (22:12:55) Yuna: she doesn't even do that much .-.
    (22:12:56) t3 the third: idk why STeel hired Irma honeslty
    (22:12:59) t3 the third: yeah
    (22:13:01) t3 the third: :<
    (22:13:09) Yuna: most the MAs are there just for
    (22:13:11) Yuna: modding and shit
    (22:13:12) Mrhappysadass left the channel.
    (22:13:12) Yuna: no reviewing
    (22:13:12) Liam James Payne: tbh, some of the current MA's don't really deserve/need to be MA.
    (22:13:16) Yuna: did you guys review themes?
    (22:13:18) Yuna: brb
    (22:13:20) CBTerrakion: such as?
    (22:13:20) Liam James Payne: Yuna
    (22:13:22) Malladus joined the channel.
    (22:13:36) Liam James Payne: The ONLY MA's that reviewed my themes were t3 the third and Water.
    (22:13:49) Jacze: tbh
    (22:14:04) Jacze: I don't think I should have been MA in the first place.
    (22:14:12) Jacze: Feel free to quote that.
    (22:14:23) Fegelein: You lasted longer than Xinc
    (22:14:28) t3 the third: lol
    (22:14:34) Jacze: Well guys
    (22:14:40) Jacze: I've gotta go.
    (22:14:41) t3 the third: I was hired and fired within 12 hours of MA
    (22:14:43) t3 the third: and then came back
    (22:14:45) t3 the third: lulzy
    (22:14:52) Jacze: Won't be on for a while again.
    (22:15:03) Jacze: Tell everyone I missed I said hi.
    (22:15:10) CBTerrakion: as in how log
    (22:15:13) CBTerrakion: long*
    (22:15:15) Jacze: no clue.
    (22:15:18) Jacze: PEACE!
    (22:15:22) Jacze left the channel.
    (22:15:22) t3 the third: bai
    (22:15:58) Liam James Payne: Tbh.
    (22:16:04) Liam James Payne: And I don't care if I get banned honestly.
    (22:16:18) Liam James Payne: I just feel like Steel is being bias towards people./
    (22:16:25) t3 the third: would be better honestly, less time-wasting
    (22:16:30) Fegelein: You probably won't get banned for that
    (22:16:30) t3 the third: steel is eh
    (22:16:44) t3 the third: nice guy but eh
    (22:16:48) Liam James Payne: I liked Steel before he was mod.
    (22:17:04) Fegelein: I have a strange relation with Steel
    (22:17:10) ±Dratini: Jn Of The Gale was mysteriously kicked by Jin Of The Gale!
    (22:17:37) Liam James Payne: "Try to make sure all feedback you give is somewhat constructive. Being harsh is encouraged, but saying something is bad without offering any help is not. People will not know where they are going wrong without proper feedback."
    (22:17:56) Liam James Payne: Saying "It was confusing even when Ozma was here. Rejected" is NOT offering any help whatsoever.
    (22:18:06) t3 the third: yeah that
    (22:18:10) t3 the third: I never understood that
    (22:18:30) Fegelein: Same
    (22:18:35) Liam James Payne: Like when Professor Oak reviews stuff he actually gives negative/positive feedback
    (22:19:10) Fegelein: Ikr
    (22:19:10) t3 the third: yeah
    (22:19:12) Liam James Payne: Like this.
    (22:19:13) Liam James Payne: http://pokemon-online.eu/forums/showthread.php?15920-Space&p=204537&viewfull=1#post204537
    (22:19:13) Fegelein: And Bebbz
    (22:19:14) t3 the third: although he does it seldomly
    (22:19:30) Liam James Payne: I thought the purpose of mafia review was to submit your themes for feedback.
    (22:19:45) t3 the third: Actually
    (22:19:58) t3 the third: Zzyzx is probably leaving QC if we make a subforum for theme prototypes
    (22:20:06) Trosh: Liam, thats not the best example.
    (22:20:19) Liam James Payne: Trosh
    (22:20:23) Liam James Payne: It's happened to other people also.
    (22:20:23) Trosh: Steel was right to lock that specific thread because it didnt suit the guidelines
    (22:20:26) Trosh: Liam, I know.
    (22:20:31) Fegelein: Liam, you rmain alt?
    (22:20:39) t3 the third: mr.anony
    (22:20:41) t3 the third: SteelEdges: I don't care what the players think.
    (22:20:43) Fegelein: Ahh
    (22:20:43) Trosh: Gosh, I know. I was just saying you should use a different example.
    (22:20:44) Liam James Payne changed names and is now known as Mr.Anonymous.
    (22:20:45) t3 the third: :<
    (22:20:54) t3 the third: I mean
    (22:20:57) t3 the third: STeel REALLY likes Mafia
    (22:20:58) t3 the third: and trivia
    (22:21:11) Mr.Anonymous: t3 the third
    (22:21:15) Mr.Anonymous: Apparently he does care though.
    (22:21:18) t3 the third: yeah
    (22:21:21) Mr.Anonymous: Because when I was talking to Water.
    (22:21:21) t3 the third: but that was about theme
    (22:21:26) Mr.Anonymous: He apparently "saw the logs"
    (22:21:28) t3 the third: that was about themes and their removals
    (22:21:38) t3 the third: b4 new system
    (22:21:43) Mr.Anonymous: Like honestly.
    (22:21:46) t3 the third: not perfect but it's much better
    (22:21:57) Mr.Anonymous: I just think this whole "new review system" thing is still not much better than the old one.
    (22:22:01) Mr.Anonymous: That's just my opinion.
    (22:22:06) Mr.Anonymous: Feel free to disagree with me.
    (22:22:28) Trosh: Anon, I feel like thats true. I've even said so in my own thread. However, this can only be changed by a complete change of mentality from a large group of people.
    (22:22:30) Fegelein: Also I am making a new Youtube channel to make top 10 lists
    (22:22:35) ±Dratini: VivPremonition was muted by vintage books for 1 hour! [Reason: stop insulting other players] [Channel: Mafia Channel]
    (22:22:40) Trosh: Fegelein, top 10s of what?
    (22:22:43) Trosh: I love top 10s
    (22:22:46) t3 the third: trosh
    (22:22:48) t3 the third: listverse?
    (22:22:49) t3 the third: :o
    (22:22:51) Mr.Anonymous: Do not accept a theme without at least some discussion. While some themes may seem like they should be able to zoom through, there may be something overlooked.
    (22:22:54) Fegelein: Video Game related
    (22:22:58) Mr.Anonymous: Like FF
    (22:22:59) t3 the third: ok so
    (22:23:07) t3 the third: PUT HALF-LIFE AS BEST VG SERIES OF ALL TIME
    (22:23:08) Trosh: Feg, when it's done, give me the link and I'll watch.
    (22:23:13) t3 the third: jk
    (22:23:13) Fegelein: I've got an intro up
    (22:23:15) t3 the third: put Mario :O
    (22:23:17) Trosh: OMG NO THATS SUPAH MARIEU GELEXEY
    (22:23:21) t3 the third: but half-life best FPS
    (22:23:23) t3 the third: def
    (22:23:24) Trosh: OMG BEST GAME EHAHZ
    (22:23:26) Fegelein: I'll PM it to you so I don't advertise
    (22:23:28) Mr.Anonymous: Trosh
    (22:23:30) Trosh: Sure
    (22:23:46) Mr.Anonymous: The problem I have with this review system is that MOST of the MA's are also QC's.
    (22:23:49) Mr.Anonymous: Therefore bias.
    (22:24:03) Mr.Anonymous: And different people like different things.
    (22:24:48) t3 the third: sometimes, it's really just the theme makers though

    (22:24:50) ***************************************************************************************
    (22:24:50) ±Game: A new Zelda-themed mafia game was started at #Mafia Channel!
    (22:24:50) ***************************************************************************************

    (22:24:54) t3 the third: submitting unfinished themes
    (22:25:01) Mr.Anonymous: t3 the third
    (22:25:06) t3 the third: I mean sure feedback but don't make the goddamn theme on the forum
    (22:25:07) Mr.Anonymous: I've seen a few themes like that.
    (22:25:18) Mr.Anonymous: But a majority of them are finished.
    (22:25:18) Trosh: Thats why that first example wasnt suiting.
    (22:25:29) Fegelein: I am not making my Zelda theme OOT
    (22:25:39) Trosh: Fegelein, MM
    (22:25:43) Fegelein: aka most overrated theme of all time
    (22:25:46) Fegelein: game*
    (22:25:58) Trosh: You know, I have a theory on WHY its overrated.
    (22:25:58) Fegelein: Don't get me wrong, OOT is good, but INSANELY overrated
    (22:26:07) Yuna: O_o
    (22:26:18) Mr.Anonymous: Yuna
    (22:26:18) Trosh: Either intentionally, subconsciously or as a lucky hit,
    (22:26:22) Yuna: Mr.Anonymous
    (22:26:23) Mr.Anonymous: #Gossip now.
    (22:26:25) Trosh: Nintendo made a game with growing up as a central theme.
    (22:26:25) Mr.Anonymous: I need to talk.
    (22:26:25) Yuna: i've made the account
    (22:26:45) Trosh: At the time OoT came out, many players had the problem of being pretty much grown up
    (22:26:55) Mr.Anonymous: Like with FE.
    (22:26:55) Trosh: and OoT played to their feelings
    (22:27:02) Trosh: and it was also a great transit from 2D to 3D
    (22:27:03) Mr.Anonymous: I hardly ever saw FE being played
    (22:27:08) Fegelein: I preferred the original Zeldas
    (22:27:10) Malladus: Fegelein, the MOST overrated theme is WWW
    (22:27:13) ±Chatot: Yuna would like you to join #altaria's cloud!
    (22:27:13) Mr.Anonymous: Now it's suddenly one of the "most popular" themes.
    (22:27:18) Fegelein: Agreed Malladus
    (22:27:23) Trosh: Mr Anon, thats because its epic.
    (22:27:28) Trosh: FF is a bit dull nowadays
    (22:27:33) Malladus: FiM is also overrated
    (22:27:35) Trosh: the addition of the new and improved cactuar is a start
    (22:27:38) Yuna: yes
    (22:27:40) Trosh: Malladus, its not overrated
    (22:27:43) Yuna: FiM isn't a very good theme tbh
    (22:27:46) Trosh: because its not rated well
    (22:27:49) Trosh: and not very good
    (22:27:56) Malladus: FiM is slow going
    (22:28:00) Fegelein: FiM is actually a mediocre theme (I don't mind ponies) but still
    (22:28:02) Trosh: FiM is unbalanced
    (22:28:07) Malladus: Even a 14 player game takes 10 minutes
    (22:28:09) Trosh: FiM is weird
    (22:28:14) Yuna: i put LED on my phone and my eyes got screwed over when my bf texted me
    (22:28:15) Trosh: FiM has unique village roles
    (22:28:20) Trosh: FiM is confusing all-around
    (22:28:21) Mr.Anonymous: Like MOST of themes that are currently installed are either a) From Popular/respected members of mafia b) Use to be popular and this got accepted without even discussion or c) Because a QC made them.
    (22:28:23) Trosh: FiM sucks.
    (22:28:27) Yuna: no
    (22:28:32) Yuna: Cake's themes weren't accepted
    (22:28:37) Malladus: Yeah
    (22:28:39) Mr.Anonymous: Yuna.
    (22:28:40) Yuna: and like, every damn one loves cake.
    (22:28:43) Trosh: But that was because they needed to cut the line SOMEWHERE
    (22:28:45) t3 the third: Cake just doens't know how to balance
    (22:28:46) Mr.Anonymous: A lot of people don't like Cake.
    (22:29:00) Malladus: Yuna, Cake's theme were unbalanced
    (22:29:03) t3 the third: Cake is alright, but sensitive to criticism+doesn't know how to balance well
    (22:29:03) Trosh: Balance should never be a problem for accepting a theme imo
    (22:29:03) Fegelein: Give me names
    (22:29:07) Malladus: SSBB+, Pokemon Dreams DDD
    (22:29:07) Yuna: yes and yes
    (22:29:12) Trosh: balancing can only be properly done AFTER it's tested.
    (22:29:14) Yuna: SSBB+ has too many damn roles and teams
    (22:29:20) t3 the third: same for pokemon
    (22:29:22) Fegelein: Anon give me names and I shall pick them off one by one >.>
    (22:29:23) Yuna: screws my mind over
    (22:29:28) Yuna: Fegelein pick me first
    (22:29:36) Yuna: i used to be her number one fan
    (22:29:38) Yuna: then Ozma came back
    (22:29:41) Mr.Anonymous: ^
    (22:29:43) Malladus: Trosh, did you even see Pokemon and SSBB+? You don't need to play it to se It's unbalanced
    (22:29:43) t3 the third: lol
    (22:29:50) Mr.Anonymous: Malladus
    (22:29:51) Yuna: hi five anon
    (22:30:03) Mr.Anonymous: The point is, how do we know if it's balanced without even playing it ?
    (22:30:05) Yuna: well if a theme is unbalanced
    (22:30:06) Yuna: nobody would want to play it
    (22:30:13) Fegelein: On that topic
    (22:30:17) Trosh: But you dont KNOW if its unbalanced
    (22:30:17) Malladus: Looking a t script
    (22:30:19) Trosh: until you play it
    (22:30:19) Fegelein: Let me check if Pastebin is back
    (22:30:25) Yuna: well yeah kinda
    (22:30:27) Yuna: it's like teambuilding ;~;
    (22:30:41) Malladus: Hmm
    (22:30:41) Fegelein: nope :(
    (22:30:58) CBTerrakion left the channel.
    (22:31:12) Yuna: wow
    (22:31:15) Yuna: as soon as i appear and everyone dies off
    (22:31:21) CBTerrakion joined the channel.
    (22:31:21) Mr.Anonymous: Try to make sure all feedback you give is somewhat constructive. Being harsh is encouraged, but saying something is bad without offering any help is not. People will not know where they are going wrong without proper feedback.
    (22:31:21) Mr.Anonymous: Do not accept a theme without at least some discussion. While some themes may seem like they should be able to zoom through, there may be something overlooked.
    (22:31:23) Fegelein: So, can someone give me some ideas for my first Video Game related top ten?
    (22:31:25) Yuna: i know i'm very well-liked and nice to talk to, thank you
    (22:31:44) Trosh: Fegelein, imo you should make a list of best boss battle themes.
    (22:31:56) Trosh: It means you dont have to add a whole lot of commentary.
    (22:31:58) Mr.Anonymous: Talking to people here about it is useless.
    (22:31:58) Yuna: anon died?
    (22:31:59) Fegelein: Peanut what ever numbers he has has done that
    (22:32:02) Yuna: oh wait, botcolor
    (22:32:08) Mr.Anonymous: I should just make a post on the forums.
    (22:32:11) Yuna: I have an idea of a Jin vs. Ozma theme
    (22:32:20) Mr.Anonymous: Fixed ?
    (22:32:27) Trosh: On a very unrelated note, is the "actions": -part necessary for villagers?
    (22:32:27) Yuna: Jin gets one kill per night, Ozma gets two poisons.
    (22:32:30) Fegelein: Best Video Game Bosses perhaps?
    (22:32:34) Yuna: course not
    (22:32:34) Jiggles left the channel.
    (22:32:34) Mr.Anonymous: Yes Trosh.
    (22:32:38) Malladus: (14:32:26) ±Murkrow: Installed themes are: default, Caterpie, Chinchous, Elements, FE, FF, FiM, Fruit, History, Kirby, Marvel, Mythology, Space Invaders, Weapons, Windows, Zelda
    (22:32:42) Trosh: Fegelein, overdone but still a great start
    (22:32:44) Malladus: Can anyone else see the connection?
    (22:32:45) Yuna: luljk don't ask me
    (22:32:53) Mr.Anonymous: Malladus.
    (22:33:00) Mr.Anonymous: Exactly what I said before.
    (22:33:02) Malladus: Space Invaders is the only theme from a not so popular person
    (22:33:07) Yuna: anon press control+L
    (22:33:09) Mr.Anonymous: (22:28:21) Mr.Anonymous: Like MOST of themes that are currently installed are either a) From Popular/respected members of mafia b) Use to be popular and this got accepted without even discussion or c) Because a QC made them.
    (22:33:19) Malladus: Srrsly
    (22:33:34) Mr.Anonymous: Tbh, MA's should NOT be part of the QC
    (22:33:36) Nuclear Fusion joined the channel.
    (22:33:40) Malladus: Meh...
    (22:33:42) Mr.Anonymous: I think the QC's should be a RANGE of different people./
    (22:33:48) Yuna: but see
    (22:33:49) Yuna: most of them are experienced
    (22:33:51) Yuna: more experienced
    (22:33:52) Mr.Anonymous: Because different people have different playing styles.
    (22:33:53) Yuna: they have meowmix
    (22:34:00) Malladus: Lol
    (22:34:19) Malladus: RiceKirby, Deria, Tyrex, Redsnake and Cat Far
    (22:34:25) Malladus: And Tesla
    (22:34:28) Mr.Anonymous: Deria = Mod.
    (22:34:30) Yuna: Cat Fart is on the QC?
    (22:34:34) Malladus: Only ones with a theme
    (22:34:40) Yuna: oh, theme
    (22:34:42) Malladus: Those are the only ones with a them up atm
    (22:34:43) Yuna: Dark Phoenix too
    (22:34:45) Mr.Anonymous: RiceKirby = Respected member of mafia
    (22:34:55) Yuna: Cat Fart's theme is freaking cool
    (22:34:55) Mr.Anonymous: Don't forget Li.
    (22:34:59) Malladus: Deria and Tesla = QC
    (22:35:00) Yuna: I never knew he had that potential
    (22:35:03) Malladus: Oh and LI yeah
    (22:35:03) Yuna: Li Q. Assir = Like A Sir
    (22:35:07) Trosh: Not respected enough to keep Rotom on, but w/e
    (22:35:07) Yuna: js
    (22:35:14) Yuna: Rotom was awesome
    (22:35:20) Mr.Anonymous: Trosh
    (22:35:21) Malladus: Meh
    (22:35:27) Mr.Anonymous: Because people were complaining about Rotom.
    (22:35:34) Trosh: They actually werent
    (22:35:38) Mr.Anonymous: They were.
    (22:35:38) Malladus: I also like how that only some themes get rewieved
    (22:35:41) Trosh: it was just because SOME of the mods didnt like it.
    (22:35:51) Trosh: Not going to name any pointy materials here.
    (22:35:53) Yuna: Trosh, some people WERE
    (22:35:56) Malladus: Rotom was a epic game IMo
    (22:35:57) Yuna: complaining about rotom
    (22:35:58) Mr.Anonymous: And because SOME people were complaining.
    (22:35:59) Yuna: myself included
    (22:36:04) Trosh: It was the 11th-most played theme.
    (22:36:06) Yuna: no anon, emphasis on the WERE
    (22:36:06) Malladus: What is wrong with it?
    (22:36:20) Trosh: It therefore was well-liked within the community.
    (22:36:22) Yuna changed names and is now known as LadyAltaria.
    (22:36:34) LadyAltaria: people were complaining that it's too repetitive
    (22:36:41) Mr.Anonymous: I wasn't complaining because of the theme, I was more complaining because everyone kept saying "No one convert so we can get the achievement"
    (22:36:42) LadyAltaria: well they'll be going on about Cat Fart's theme sooner or later
    (22:36:46) LadyAltaria: yes
    (22:36:53) LadyAltaria: tbh the achievements sucked
    (22:36:54) Malladus: Rotom got Mafia into a whole new level
    (22:36:57) LadyAltaria: weren't all that
    (22:37:00) LadyAltaria: a pain in the ass to keep up with
    (22:37:03) LadyAltaria: i didn't have any fucking achievements
    (22:37:05) Trosh: A whole new level of EPIC, thats what it did
    (22:37:06) Malladus: Achievements was locked
    (22:37:10) LadyAltaria: i know
    (22:37:12) LadyAltaria: were*
    (22:37:15) LadyAltaria: i mean
    (22:37:16) Malladus: Luckily
    (22:37:16) LadyAltaria: *were*
    (22:37:20) Mr.Anonymous: And some people *not going to mention names* WERE mentioning that FF would be accepted without having to be reviewed.
    (22:37:24) Mr.Anonymous: I mean how biased is that.
    (22:37:32) Malladus: How about Cake?
    (22:37:36) LadyAltaria: yeah imo it was a beautiful theme but
    (22:37:40) Mr.Anonymous: Malladus
    (22:37:42) Mr.Anonymous: What about Cake ?
    (22:37:44) LadyAltaria: yeah it still should've been reviewed
    (22:37:54) Mr.Anonymous: If they wanna call it a NEW mafia review system.
    (22:38:01) Malladus: She wanted to have her pokemon and SSBB+ submitted inadvanced because she said "they would get acccepted in no second"
    (22:38:02) CBTerrakion: go join mafia
    (22:38:06) Mr.Anonymous: ALL themes INCLUDING old and POPULAR ones should be reviewed.
    (22:38:08) LadyAltaria: looool
    (22:38:09) Mr.Anonymous: THE SAME WAY
    (22:38:16) Malladus: "And no point in deleting Pokemon
    (22:38:32) Mr.Anonymous: That's different.
    (22:38:35) Trademark joined the channel.
    (22:38:35) Fegelein: I should remake Pokemon
    (22:38:36) LadyAltaria: she's being a huge pain with her going on and on about how everyone in review's being bad to her
    (22:38:38) Fegelein: But Cake would be mad
    (22:38:43) LadyAltaria: yeah
    (22:38:45) Malladus: Right now, she is pretty upset though
    (22:38:51) Malladus: Cake easily turns mad
    (22:38:52) LadyAltaria: i don't think anyone's been that horrible to her
    (22:38:57) Mr.Anonymous: Apparently some of the mods even confirmed that FF would be accepted without having to be submitted.
    (22:38:58) Malladus: That's a problem about her
    (22:39:07) LadyAltaria: can't accept criticsm
    (22:39:09) LadyAltaria: critiscm
    (22:39:09) Mr.Anonymous: I just think she can't handle criticism.
    (22:39:10) LadyAltaria: bs
    (22:39:13) LadyAltaria: my spelling
    (22:39:17) LadyAltaria: fuck you spelling
    (22:39:17) Malladus: Lol
    (22:39:24) Malladus: Some can't handle criticism though
    (22:39:26) Mr.Anonymous: (22:38:57) Mr.Anonymous: Apparently some of the mods even confirmed that FF would be accepted without having to be submitted.
    (22:39:45) Mr.Anonymous: Not gonna say who though.
    (22:39:57) LadyAltaria: okay
    (22:40:00) LadyAltaria: now what
    (22:40:05) Malladus: It's also funny how that Trosh's NGII theme never got reqieved by a QC Member
    (22:40:21) Trosh: It's also funny how my theme had a core issue that NOBODY addressed
    (22:40:29) Malladus: Yup
    (22:40:32) Trosh: because they were too busy criticizing it without giving reasoning
    (22:40:49) Malladus: And Castle wasn't allowed due to it being a kill fest
    (22:40:53) Malladus: :/
    (22:40:55) Mr.Anonymous: Like I made a Pokemon theme.
    (22:40:56) LadyAltaria: but vepix was
    (22:40:57) Mr.Anonymous: And guess what.
    (22:41:01) Malladus: That
    (22:41:04) Malladus: The funny part
    (22:41:10) LadyAltaria: they're being too strict with a few themes and too lenient with some others
    (22:41:11) Mr.Anonymous: Apparently SOME of my sides were unbalanced and had no concept.
    (22:41:20) Trosh: >Pokemon not being a concept
    (22:41:21) LadyAltaria: if i was on the QC, i'd never let themes go
    (22:41:23) LadyAltaria: i can take mafia places
    (22:41:26) LadyAltaria: that it's never been before
    (22:41:29) Trademark: project mafia is a nice place to complain about mafia ^^
    (22:41:32) Malladus: Yup
    (22:41:34) LadyAltaria: bs idk why jb is stuck in my head annoying classmates maybe
    (22:41:38) Malladus: Trademark, we are complainig about QC
    (22:41:38) Trosh: Trademark, its the trademarked place to do so.
    (22:41:43) LadyAltaria: lmao ok trosh
    (22:41:49) Trademark: yeah
    (22:41:54) Trademark: double flash
    (22:42:01) Trosh: Anyway, I am making freaking PROGRESS with my theme
    (22:42:01) Trosh: yay
    (22:42:09) Mr.Anonymous: When I submitted my Pokemon theme, A certain someone was saying my legendaries side was unbalanced and had no concept.
    (22:42:11) LadyAltaria: o k
    (22:42:12) Malladus: QC seems more like conspiracy than Qualification IMO
    (22:42:23) Mr.Anonymous: When the side was practically the same as FF.
    (22:42:27) LadyAltaria: QC is pulling everyone apart
    (22:42:27) Trosh: >because legendaries is not a concept
    (22:42:28) Malladus: Lol
    (22:42:31) LadyAltaria: QC is bringing Mafia to its knees
    (22:42:42) Mr.Anonymous: I'm gonna save this whole conversation.
    (22:42:50) Mr.Anonymous: And make a post on the Mafia Review thing.
    (22:42:51) Malladus: Double lol
    (22:42:59) Malladus: Uhh
    (22:43:02) Mr.Anonymous: About my complaints I have with this "new review system"
    (22:43:02) LadyAltaria: oh no
    (22:43:03) Malladus: Delete the part with Cake
    (22:43:08) LadyAltaria: yes
    (22:43:12) LadyAltaria: delete the part with Cake
    (22:43:13) Trosh: And maybe the part with the pointy materials too
    (22:43:16) Mr.Anonymous: I don't care about Cake.
    (22:43:17) Trosh: just for me
    (22:43:30) Mr.Anonymous: If Cake wants to get angry at me, she can get angry at me.
    (22:43:31) FPT left the channel.
    (22:43:35) Mr.Anonymous: I honestly don't care.
    (22:43:39) Trademark: give the entire thing, if you delete something it just shows you are afraid of them
    (22:43:46) Mr.Anonymous: ^
    (22:43:47) Trosh: Trademark, I AM afraid of them
    (22:43:52) Mr.Anonymous: Brb, gonna make the post now.
    (22:43:52) LadyAltaria: no
    (22:43:53) Trosh: Steel is INCREDIBLY biased against me.
    (22:43:55) LadyAltaria: she will get angry with ME
    (22:43:59) Malladus: And me
    (22:44:00) Trademark: hehe
    (22:44:01) LadyAltaria: oh god
    (22:44:04) LadyAltaria: walls have ears *-*
    (22:44:05) Fegelein: #Music Theme, come here if you want to see my ideas for my music theme
    (22:44:07) Trademark: im leaving po soon anyway ^^
    (22:44:09) Fegelein: I will paste them in
    (22:44:10) Mr.Anonymous: It just shows how biased they truly are.
    (22:44:11) Malladus: :o
    (22:44:17) LadyAltaria: anon made a music theme before right?
    (22:44:21) LadyAltaria: Trademark STOP SAYING THAT
    (22:44:21) Malladus: Mr.Anonymous you tread will get deleted
    (22:44:22) Malladus: Nop
    (22:44:23) Mr.Anonymous: A lot of people are starting to leave PO because they don't like what Mafia has become.
    (22:44:25) Malladus: Cheeze did
    (22:44:30) Malladus: Mr.Anonymous
    (22:44:31) Mr.Anonymous: Malladus
    (22:44:32) Malladus: I agree
    (22:44:38) Mr.Anonymous: If It gets deleted, I'll just post it again.
    (22:44:41) Trademark: im really going LadyAltaria
    (22:44:51) Mr.Anonymous: I was gonna go too.
    (22:44:51) Trademark: like in 3 months or so
    (22:44:56) Mr.Anonymous: Because there was nothing left to do.
    (22:45:01) Mr.Anonymous: Because Ozma was gone.
    (22:45:04) LadyAltaria: Trademark why????
    (22:45:05) Malladus: I have even considered leaving PO, loking at how biased Mafia has become
    (22:45:07) Fegelein: Mafia is kind of dying atm
    (22:45:09) LadyAltaria: i know right
    (22:45:09) Mr.Anonymous: And I basically can talk to LA on Twitter/Facebook.
    (22:45:09) LadyAltaria: me too
    (22:45:13) LadyAltaria: haha yeah
    (22:45:20) Trademark: yeah
    (22:45:22) Mr.Anonymous: Anyway
    (22:45:22) Mr.Anonymous: Brb,
    (22:45:23) Trademark: what anon said
    (22:45:24) Mr.Anonymous: Making the post.
    (22:45:28) Malladus: I miss the old days...
    (22:45:29) Trosh: Guys, theres no reason to leave
    (22:45:31) LadyAltaria: except the twitter/fb part
    (22:45:35) LadyAltaria: there's no reason to stay either
    (22:45:36) Mr.Anonymous: Malladus
    (22:45:39) Malladus: Trosh mafia is falling to parts
    (22:45:43) Trosh: I know
    (22:45:43) Trademark: nah i'm leaving not cause of mafia
    (22:45:48) Trosh: but thats NO reason to leave
    (22:45:49) Fegelein: Can someone make a list for me
    (22:45:52) Mr.Anonymous: I'll post in mafia section then.
    (22:45:53) LadyAltaria: i could do with the time i've always been wasting on PO
    (22:45:53) Trosh: it only makes the problem worse
    (22:45:55) Malladus: List of what?
    (22:46:00) Trademark: mafia prob has no hope ^^
    (22:46:02) Fegelein: The problems with Mafia?
    (22:46:02) LadyAltaria: Mafia: I'm falling to pieces!~
    (22:46:05) Mr.Anonymous: I'm leaving PO PARTLY because of Mafia.
    (22:46:11) Trademark: it's just getting boring in general
    (22:46:17) Trosh: Or, you know, you can also NOT leave PO

    (22:46:23) ***(>^.^)> === === === === === === === === === === === === === === === === <(^.^<)
    (22:46:23) ±Game: A new Kirby-themed mafia game was started at #Mafia Channel!
    (22:46:23) ***(>^.^)> === === === === === === === === === === === === === === === === <(^.^<)

    (22:46:24) Trosh: and stay and try to take life the way it comes
    (22:46:25) LadyAltaria: anon, you're leaving?!
    (22:46:30) Mr.Anonymous: Alternatively I COULD leave PO.
    (22:46:32) Mr.Anonymous: LadyAltaria
    (22:46:34) Mr.Anonymous: I was considering it.
    (22:46:37) LadyAltaria: no you're not
    (22:46:37) Mr.Anonymous: But now that Ozma is back..
    (22:46:39) Trademark: i could be a great scholar but PO came
    (22:46:41) LadyAltaria: you're not leaving if i'm still here
    (22:46:42) LadyAltaria: Trademark you too
    (22:46:45) LadyAltaria: holy fuck
    (22:46:45) Mr.Anonymous: LadyAltaria
    (22:46:46) LadyAltaria: i know right
    (22:46:53) LadyAltaria: i could've gotten into chem RA at year one
    (22:46:53) Mr.Anonymous: I can leave whenever the fuck I want tbh.
    (22:46:56) LadyAltaria: or some shit
    (22:46:59) Fegelein: Right, someone PM your PO problems
    (22:47:05) Mr.Anonymous: Fegelein
    (22:47:05) LadyAltaria: cool
    (22:47:06) Mr.Anonymous: Why ?
    (22:47:16) Fegelein: Fucking dad pushing me off computer, the oaf
    (22:47:18) LadyAltaria: cos he doesn't want to hear it, duh
    (22:47:23) LadyAltaria: ikr
    (22:47:24) Mr.Anonymous: LadyAltaria
    (22:47:25) Malladus: Ozma is the only nice mod IMO
    (22:47:33) Mr.Anonymous: I'll tweet you the link when I'm done.
    (22:47:48) Malladus: Well, Jin is alright to
    (22:47:50) Mr.Anonymous: I like Ozma, BebbZ, CM, Jin (SOMETIMES) and Lamperi.
    (22:47:55) t3 the third logged out.
    (22:47:55) ~Unknown~ left the channel.
    (22:48:03) Trademark: jin when he isnt drunk ^^
    (22:48:08) Mr.Anonymous: Anyway
    (22:48:09) Malladus: Lamperi is more like the silent guy
    (22:48:11) Mr.Anonymous: Brb.
    (22:48:12) Mr.Anonymous: Making a post.
    [/HIDE]

    *Let me first start off by saying, I don't know where else to post this, I've talked to Crystal Moogle and Water about this and it's gotten to the point where I've gotten really frustrated.
    Secondly, if this post gets deleted, I will find another way to re-post the same thing so that as MANY people can read it as possible.
    Thirdly, if you give me an infraction/warning because I simply pointed out a few things I didn't like then it shows that you can't handle criticism/negativity.
    Fourthly, This post was not in ANYWAY meant to be attacking anyone. If you feel like you were attacked, please either send me a personal message on PO or send me a private message on the forums.
    Fifthly, This is my personal opinion and you can disagree with me on this, but Mafia is falling to pieces, people are leaving or getting fed up with the new themes/review process/everything, Newer mafia players who don't know how to play always get attacked by the older players because of their inexperience, every time I've checked, Mafia tutoring is a dead channel or there are simply no QUALIFIED mafia tutors on.*

    According to this post/thread

    - Try to make sure all feedback you give is somewhat constructive. Being harsh is encouraged, but saying something is bad without offering any help is not. People will not know where they are going wrong without proper feedback.

    The following posts are SOME examples of ONE of my problems with QC and this "new" mafia review system.

    http://pokemon-online.eu/forums/showthread.php?15922-Mafia-Channel&p=202376&viewfull=1#post202376

    http://pokemon-online.eu/forums/showthread.php?15919-Ozma&p=202981&viewfull=1#post202981

    Saying "It was confusing even when Ozma was here" isn't really giving feedback.

    http://pokemon-online.eu/forums/showthread.php?16036-Eeveelutions&p=204543&viewfull=1#post204543

    http://pokemon-online.eu/forums/sho...resident-(PtP)&p=206672&viewfull=1#post206672

    There was nothing said about what was wrong with the theme, but simply telling them to "fix up" the theme without telling them WHAT to fix.

    ==

    Those posts are simply just saying "Reject" without going into detail about why the theme was rejected.


    - Do not accept a theme without at least some discussion. While some themes may seem like they should be able to zoom through, there may be something overlooked.

    As stated above in chat conversation, there WERE people saying that FF would be accepted regardless of whether or not it was posted to Mafia Review (Now I'm not entirely sure if this is true). To be honest it doesn't really seem like a "NEW" review system is you're going to simply accept old/popular themes WITHOUT having it REVIEWED like ALL THE OTHER THEMES.


    Mafia Review

    All forum rules apply here.

    How to get your theme approved

    What to include in your thread:

    Post the code of your theme. Before posting, however, be sure to get it checked with JSON checker and Rice's theme checker and put it in HIDE tags, also please include a link to its Pastebin RAW (or any other host like dropbox/github/etc) as this makes uploading the theme to the server a lot easier!

    If any edits are made to your theme during the review process, include them in your OP and list them as EDIT 1, EDIT 2, etc. Include HIDE tags listing the changes. This will make it easier for everyone to follow the progress of your theme.

    Write a description of your theme. This may include role description, sides, general strategy and why it is different from other themes. Basically, the more detail we receive the easier it is to review and the more likely your theme will get approved.

    Mafia is a community, so you should take note of all advice, criticism and suggestions that are given. However, feel free to only make changes that you see fit while considering all suggestions given.

    Once your theme has received 6 approvals from members of the Mafia QC it will be implemented. However each rejection your theme receives will negate one approval. If enough rejections are received, your thread will be locked and you will have to resubmit it after significant changes are made.

    In the event your thread is locked and if you feel that you have made sufficient edits and changes which improve the theme, feel free to post another thread. But if you post immediately after your previous one is locked, or do not prove that enough thought has gone into the updates, you will receive an infraction and your thread will be locked.

    Want to contribute? Posting guidelines for theme review

    The purpose of this forum is to provide a completely transparent and accessible place for the review of Mafia themes. We encourage anyone and everyone to post.

    When posting don't be afraid to suggest changes, share criticism, or shower with praise. But this process should allow themers to improve the overall quality of their work, so take care to always be constructive. Nonconstructive and pointless posts will be deleted and possibly infracted. Insulting posts will be infracted.

    If you are not a member of QC, do not post a bolded "Accept" or "Reject."

    Members of theme QC

    Aiku / Deria
    BebbZ
    Dark Phoenix
    fitzyhbbe
    Irma
    Katia
    MeowMix
    Nainil
    Oh So Shoddy
    PokeWorldBW
    Professor Oak
    Samphire
    Saltopus
    SteelEdges
    t3 the third
    Tesla Elesa/Twins
    vintage books
    Water
    Zzyzx Road

    QC Guidelines

    These apply to the people actually doing the reviewing. However, potential candidates for QC will most likely be spotted for following things on here, so be aware of these when posting. If you find any QC members not following this, then please report it to an owner.
    Make sure to remain impartial no matter who the submitter of the theme is. Any sort of bias that is aimed towards the submitter is not tolerated. If you feel as if you cannot review a certain theme because of the submitter, then don't. Simply review another instead.
    Do not review your own themes. This one should be obvious, but it needs to be said.
    Try to make sure all feedback you give is somewhat constructive. Being harsh is encouraged, but saying something is bad without offering any help is not. People will not know where they are going wrong without proper feedback.
    Do not accept a theme without at least some discussion. While some themes may seem like they should be able to zoom through, there may be something overlooked.

    Approved Themes
    http://pokemon-online.eu/forums/foru...pproved-Themes[/HIDE]

    Another problem I have is that last time I checked, Mafia Review was used to post your themes to get feedback on it. This was done with my space theme, but it was locked because apparently "That's not the purpose of review" even if I did say that I didn't want to get accepted, I was looking for feedback so that when I made changes to the theme it would be right for submitting a second time.

    http://pokemon-online.eu/forums/showthread.php?15920-Space

    Last problem I have with this "NEW" mafia review system is that MOST of the currently installed themes are made by people respected within the mafia community or were made by a QC/Mod. If you want to call it a "NEW" mafia review system, there should be NO biasness. This is just what I believe and you might not agree but I feel that some of the QC members are being biased towards certain people/themes. Just because a theme is "popular" doesn't mean it SHOULDN'T have to face the same review as every other theme (Emphasis on the word SHOULDN'T). I understand that not ALL popular themes were accepted like Pokemon or SSBB+ or even Rotom for that matter but MOST of the themes currently installed ARE or WERE popular themes. I think the ONLY theme that isn't/wasn't popular is Space Invaders. Take a look at the theme AUTHORS and the theme NAMES and you'll PROBABLY notice SOME biasness.


    Caterpie
    http://dl.dropbox.com/u/10065307/Mafia/Caterpie.js
    RiceKirby, IceKirby, MiniKirby and Kirby
    yes
    Chinchous
    http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=02i3pbHn
    Chinchou, Zzyzx Road and Magnemite
    yes
    Elements
    http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=ygZhX7Wf
    Master12345
    yes
    FE
    http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=QWiUzf1G
    unknown
    yes
    FF
    http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=D1LwdwM5
    Deria
    yes
    FiM
    http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=CEC6EgPj
    Tesla Elesa
    yes
    Fruit
    http://lamperi.name/fruit.json
    Lamperi
    yes
    History
    http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=sp9RZMkT
    t3 the third and Samphire
    yes
    Kirby
    http://dl.dropbox.com/u/10065307/Mafia/Kirby.js
    RiceKirby
    yes
    Marvel
    http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=s7rhCMKJ
    Dark Phoenix
    yes
    Mythology
    http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=UBT3Mr2t
    Redsnake
    yes
    Space Invaders
    http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=zEefW4BZ
    Cat Fart
    yes
    Weapons
    http://dl.dropbox.com/u/10065307/Mafia/Weapons.js
    RiceKirby
    yes
    Windows
    http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=ycZy3Ajd
    Li Q. Assir
    yes
    Zelda
    http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=4VqJwgHh
    Tyrex
    yes
    default
    http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=rUQXNvDs
    unknown
    yes
    [/hide]

    Having said all this, I don't think that the new review system is at all bad, I just think there are flaws that need to be worked on to make sure that there is ABSOLUTELY NO biasness.

    I would also like to add one more thing, I've noticed how MOST of the QC members are mods/MA's, and that's good and you might be thinking "It's because they've had experience and stuff" but I just think that it would be better if you got DIFFERENT people with DIFFERENT playing styles, because we all play differently and we all like different things, If you're simply going to get MA's/Mods to review themes, no wonder things like this happen.
     
    Last edited: Sep 23, 2012
  2. TheUnknownOne

    TheUnknownOne Member

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    I totally agree with this
     
  3. Shiny Rayquaza

    Shiny Rayquaza Your nightmare!

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    Atleast, I'm not alone about this.
     
  4. Zzyzx Road

    Zzyzx Road Member

    Joined:
    Feb 16, 2012
    Messages:
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    PO Trainer Name:
    Zzyzx Road
    I beg to differ.

    Whilst I understand what you think, you should play along a bit more.

    - The reviews you pointed out: I agree they don't look constructive at all, but I honestly don't think you need to restate everything that someone else already said in another post. However, as long as someone agrees with that earlier post, they may and will also decline/accept without adding anything for that very reason. It is the thememaker's job to fix possible issues in their own themes.

    - Mafia Review was never meant to be a feedback place. I try and do my best on helping people, but it's not the right place to. Get feedback in other places, such as #Project Mafia or this forum even.

    - FF was put under discussion. Consider SSBB+, a popular theme that hasn't passed review the way you imply we are doing it.

    - There is no bias. We won't go easy with a theme just because the author is new, or because they are a nice person. They just have a good touch on making themes, that I assure you, if you have it one day, your theme will pass the review.

    - If that's because of your very themes not getting approved, I'd advise you to take a more careful look at what you are coding. A Mafia theme is not its flavor, it's the way the game is played, develops early-to-late, and entertains the players in general.
     
  5. IceKirby

    IceKirby A.K.A. RiceKirby

    Joined:
    Apr 26, 2011
    Messages:
    2,176
    Likes Received:
    635
    PO Trainer Name:
    RiceKirby
    I think you are mistaken in one point: Even if some people said FF should be approved without going through Mafia Review, it was submitted and approved, so I think that complaint is irrelevant.

    I half-disagree with you when you say "Reviewers shouldn't be MAs". I think MAs should be reviewers, but only those who actually have a good sense and knowledge about theme making OR that are good at spotting grammar/spelling errors (because that's important too). What I mean is that reviewers should be people who can review, regardless of their position as MA.

    And I have to offer some different interpretation to the "Only themes from popular/respected people are getting approved" part. What if actually those people got respected due to being good at making themes?

    That aside, I agree with lots of those stuff you pointed. Mafia Review's feedback is, as a whole, quite weak. I disagree when you say "Reviewers should tell how to fix the errors". They should point what need changes and why, and they could offer ideas on how to fix (how you will actually fix is up to you). But merely saying a theme is "unexceptional" it not helpful at all.
     
  6. Trosh

    Trosh Lolarising since 2011.

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    I don't totally agree with it, although I stand behind the most important points made. You are supposed to have a theme ready to be implemented. If you want the idea rated, there's other places (like CREATE, even though it seems to have died) for that.
    That's only a nitpick though. I support everything else Anonymous said.
     
  7. Mr.Anonymous

    Mr.Anonymous Member

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    I didn't post this because my themes got rejected. I was merely stating what I thought was wrong with the review system. I never ONCE said in the original post or anywhere for that matter that I was frustrated because my theme wasn't accepted. I was in no way implying it either. Going back to my Ozma theme, Steel was the very first person that posted on it so there WAS NO post to agree with.

    The Pokemon theme that I submitted had a side that was NEARLY the same as House Solidor from FF.
    Cresselia/Vayne - Getting an Inspect + Kill
    Kyogre/Larsa - Getting a kill
    Groudon/Judge - Getting a protect.
    The only difference is that Judge has a vote of 2 and my Legendaries side had an extra converter role.
     
    Last edited: Sep 23, 2012
  8. Mr.Anonymous

    Mr.Anonymous Member

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    That last point is what I meant kind of.
     
  9. Hobbes2

    Hobbes2 Aren't I dead or something

    Joined:
    May 21, 2011
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    If a MR's point is going to be redundant with something already said, quote what' already been said.

    I agree with some of what's said, though not all of it. I don't disagree with FF having potentially (that's the key word) being allowed to skip being reviewed because it has stood the test of time and pretty much everybody loves it.

    Though yeah, some of the posts in the MR were pretty bad.
     
  10. Mr.Anonymous

    Mr.Anonymous Member

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    FF may have withstood the test of time and everybody knows it but that doesn't mean it shouldn't be reviewed the same way as every other theme. I mean if you looked CAREFULLY at FF, I'm sure you could find some minor errors. Otherwise if it wasn't it shouldn't be called a "NEW" mafia review system. It should be called the "Let's accept some of the popular themes and reject all the other ones" Review system.

    Emphasis on the word "NEW"

    http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/new?s=t
     
  11. Zzyzx Road

    Zzyzx Road Member

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    Can't you see that's what is wrong :/

    We want originality, not redundancy with different skins.

    And about Ozma, players themes never worked and it was said in two different players themes posted. I do not reckon to your theme being different just because it's about a user you like. Nothing personal.
     
  12. Mr.Anonymous

    Mr.Anonymous Member

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    So what you're saying is that having an inspector with a kill action that is protected by a bodyguard is not allowed ? I'm sure a few themes have that.
    Having an inspector on the mafia side helps the mafia side because it can collect power roles and other stuff like eliminating their competition. Giving it a kill is better because what happens if Kyogre/Larsa dies and there's no one else to kill, since Judge/Groudon is the BG.
     
    Last edited: Sep 23, 2012
  13. Zzyzx Road

    Zzyzx Road Member

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    Not identically, like that. This is a reskin of another theme.
     
  14. Mr.Anonymous

    Mr.Anonymous Member

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    Ozma theme - Started by Mr.Anonymous, September 12th, 2012 12:02
    Mafia channel - Started by XerxesBreak, September 12th, 2012 12:42

    What would you suggest then ? I originally wanted to have Cresselia as just an inspector and I didn't have Regigigas role, but then Legendaries side was apparently "UP" and so I gave it an inspect to make it more balanced and now people are saying that it's a reskin. The QC were saying that it was "Underpowered" but now you're saying that it's a "reskin". I honestly don't know what to do then, I've tried making it balanced without copying other roles too much. Anyway, that's beside the point. We're not talking about my theme, We're supposed to be talking about my original post.
     
    Last edited: Sep 23, 2012
  15. Trosh

    Trosh Lolarising since 2011.

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    Guys (anon), you are ignoring the point. This is not the place for suggestions, we are here to tackle the issue that there's seemingly a lot of people who dislike how the new system developed.
     
  16. Jiggles

    Jiggles mami circular

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    I would also like to point out the process of getting the theme approved in the first place is extremely long. There are what 3 pages of themes pending approval and only 11 have been rejected.

    edit: took a count. There are 56 themes that have not been approved and out of that only 11 have been rejected.
     
  17. Shiny Rayquaza

    Shiny Rayquaza Your nightmare!

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    There is also themes which haven't got many reviews.
     
  18. Angel Flonne

    Angel Flonne Guest

    I saw that log, I was like, 'bs why wasn't I in that convo? :('

    I agree with much you say here. Anyway, this new way of Reviewing takes longer, but I like that the whole community can comment on it.
    I personally think some themes could be worked on to get approved, but they were declined.
    But, some themes, like ClanWar, have been totally overlooked.

    EDIT: I also hate the bandwagon.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 23, 2012
  19. two sides of one coin

    two sides of one coin sick of all her shit

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    Something I don't understand is how these people were appointed to the Review. Basically every single one of them are mods who usually don't even play, MA's or respected coders.
     
  20. Angel Flonne

    Angel Flonne Guest

    I feel this post is getting kinda rebellious etc...
    So like
    Calm down
    With
    Nomnomnomnomnomnmnomnomnomnomnom
    All better <3
     
  21. Shiny Rayquaza

    Shiny Rayquaza Your nightmare!

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    MR is also pointing that.

    Well, Samphire and MeowMix aren't well known coders (atleast i haven't seen any themes by them)
     
  22. TheUnknownOne

    TheUnknownOne Member

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    FF was the first theme to be approved too (it wasn't the first to be submitted however). It was the only theme for a few hours as well.
     
  23. Elliot

    Elliot New Member

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    I HAVE A PERFECT SOLOUTION!

    All we need to to is get another team of reviewers to review the reviews of the Mafia Review reviewers!
     
  24. Lucas1

    Lucas1 fun guy

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    Yes, that's the whole point of this thread.
    I agree with this thread, but not with the take a look at the theme AUTHORS and the theme NAMES and you'll PROBABLY notice SOME biasness. part.
    If themes are popuar/were popular,they will be accepted faster. That's normal.
     
  25. Elements

    Elements BOOMER SOONER Forum Moderator Server Staff Forum Moderator Server Staff

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    Please avoid posting if you have nothing to say.

    Anyway, I read this and I have to agree that in the links provided there were clear cases of Mafia Reviewers just rejecting a theme with no real reason why. The purpose of a Mafia Review is to provide ways on how to improve a theme and just flat out rejecting a theme is just incredibly stupid. SteelEdges, I'm surprised that a lot of those links were you. Just because you are a leader of Mafia doesn't mean you can just auto-reject like that. Respect the system.

    I believe there was a mention somewhere how Anon's thread asking for feedback got deleted or locked because he wasn't asking for a review. That is the correct way to deal with threads like this. This is a mafia review board and just posting your theme for pure feedback is a waste of space in this forum. The Mafia Review system should take a while because it is a way of not only cleaning up the amount of themes in the channel, but it also will make the Mafia Channel better in terms of themes. Complaining that it takes too long is a very weak argument and it shouldn't be brought up again. However, if there are themes that haven't been reviewed yet then the blame is on the Mafia Reviewers alone.

    The deal about who should be or should not be a Mafia Reviewer is another weak argument. Someone mentioned that Samphire and Meowmix aren't coders, but what does that have to do with anything? Being a coder doesn't mean you have a greater ability at being a Mafia Reviewer. In fact the "coding" of mafia themes is easy to understand by just reading it once. I don't follow your point at all. The other Mafia Reviewers were chosen by the staff because they are either MA (which means they are in fact active in the Mafia Channel) and they are trusted. Trust is very important. I also like to mention, without attacking anyone, that it is not the job of the Mafia Reviewers to coddle thememakers.
     
    Last edited: Sep 23, 2012
  26. Tesla Elesa

    Tesla Elesa Almost Quality

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    While I completely agree that the new Mafia Review system hasn't lived up to its standards very well, it does offer a marked improvement over the old system of "submit a theme, then beg MAs to review your theme weeks later."

    Yes, QC needs to actually give some commentary, even if a sentence or two, when approving or rejecting a theme. No, they don't necessarily have to type up a huge TL;DR about everything that could be fixed with the theme. Often quoting or paraphrasing what someone else has already said should suffice. The problem is that a few QC members, aren't doing that, and it bugs me too.

    And QC isn't biased towards certain people. You're equating correlation with causation, which is never a good thing to do. Fact is, most of the themes that have been approved already are not only popular, but well done, meeting the criteria of QC as a whole. Being made by a more well known coder has no bearing on acceptance. It's the theme, not the themer. Just take SSBB and Pokemon, some of the most popular themes on the entire server before everything was taken down. Now? They're stuck in Review hell like every other theme out there. Cake is a quite a well known figure in the community, and QC has flat-out declined SSBB and is on the verge of doing the same to Pokemon. That's a big deal.

    What Mafia Review needs is a restructuring. We need some sort of system that allows QC members to focus on a theme, and then approve/reject/decline it in a day or two, then move on to a next one and follow the same procedures. This would get the board cleaned up much quicker. What we have currently is just too messy. Nothing gets done.
     
  27. SteelEdges

    SteelEdges The Poll Dancer

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    I suppose in replying I will reveal a lot about my philosophies in themes and in Mafia - so be it. I hope I can address any and all concerns. If this post doesn't answer everything, feel free to PM me, preferably on the forums.

    First - I'd like to say that my largest priority in Mafia is the health of the channel per the general userbase. I think that a review system, some sort of gatekeeping, for themes is absolutely mandatory.

    What themes should make it in? Oh, sure, good ones - that's easy. But what is good? A theme overflowing with power roles, with no villagers? A joke theme, like Vepix, Daypix, or Magikarp? Only default, ever?

    I would say that the general consensus among QC is that there should be:

    Originality: Not a reskin, and not just different combinations of PRs! A theme that plays differently. Can you say that Zelda and FF play the same?

    Strategy: This is why Daypix and Rotom were removed and themes like WWW will have a difficult time making it back. Themes where you spam kills, "noobkillers," or themes that serve as only an orgy of power roles are not about what Mafia is about - using intellectual play to win. Just shooting everyone around you isn't strategic, and often, not even fun.

    Forethought: I said that Deria's FF commentary should be required reading for themers. I stand by this! FF succeeds as a theme due to the intense amount of forethought and planning put into interactions and roles. Everything is examined very carefully by him with near-scientific rigor. If most themers worked like this then the game would be fun.

    I'd like to now address various other qualms that have been said.

    I'll be quite honest. I don't give a damn about popularity within the channel. I don't care if a themer or coder is everyone's best friend - if their theme is bad, then I will reject it! I will say why I think it's bad from this point on, but I will reject it. If my mother submits a terrible theme, I will reject it. If Deria sends a theme that has only conspirators with no commands or votes, I will reject it and probably yell at him in Indigo Plateau.

    It's like Darwinism, in regards to popularity. With the exception of Rotom, WWW, and SSBB+, which were weak themes only loved because they had no villagers and numerous opportunities to blast out commands, most themes that were popular earned popularity by being great. FF, Zelda, and Myth.

    Rice is correct (Ice, Rice, I say Rice because he's more on the server). Deria can make a good theme with forethought, one of the more important elements. Tesla Elesa is known for one theme and one theme only, but she has planned it down to the core and constantly checks for things to improve and change up.

    As I said, I don't give a damn about popularity, especially when there were themes like Rotom and WWW that became popular for having exclusively power roles! Not every popular theme is good - not every good theme is popular! Also, We did look at FF, ClanWars, and others, and decide they were fine as they stayed.

    We are aware of this and will be working to ensure the process speeds up. Feel free to PM a member of QC whenever.

    We chose people we know are capable. For example, MeowMix is a mafia player who brings a special viewpoint by being an avid Forum Mafia player - but most importantly, he has QC experience in the UU tier for the wiki. Irma has coded very interesting themes in the past and is an MA. Oh So Shoddy is a moderator who plays Mafia quite often.

    What do you mean by respected coders? I'd like you to list an example or two of who you mean - I don't really understand what you mean by respected. By the MAs? Staff? Users?

    If you have any questions, PM me or reply here. But I stand firm in that not every theme is salvageable. I'll tell you what I notice. However, sometimes, we have to shut the gate.
     
    Last edited: Sep 23, 2012
  28. Li Q. Assir

    Li Q. Assir Mindblower

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    To have my theme approved (I think I'm listed as those 'not-respected coders' - that was my fist theme ever - and I'm not also a Staff/MA) I waited a very long time (submited: September 11th, 2012 21:54; 6th approval: September 22nd, 2012 03:03). If you check its timeline, it had passed a long time idle, without reviews.

    And I didn't wait longer because there was a day I decided to PM members of QC. I didn't want to disturb them, but I had waited patiently for a very long time, so I did that. Most of them were very kind, reviewed it and asked for apologies because of the long time I had to wait passively or at least explained me why (s)he could not review it at that moment. BUT, one of them discouraged me a lot when I pmed him/her (not sure if it would be nice exposing his/her name here): said I shouldn't annoy him/her and other QC members asking for reviews and just reviewed it for me to stop "perstering" him/her (it happened after I had PMed Steel, who said I should PM the QC). Since then, I don't "feel free to PM a member of QC whenever".

    So, 2 things that made me upset with this new review system: speed and this particular case of rudeness. At all it seems to be a good way to get the themes approved, but it still has to improve (mainly) the speed point.
     
    Last edited: Sep 23, 2012
  29. Mr.Anonymous

    Mr.Anonymous Member

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    That's the job of a QC though, to review themes. If they don't want to review themes why are they even a QC ? Its better if you exposed his/her name here because if you leave things out it shows that you're scared of them. The only QC that I'm comfortable PMing is Water.
     
  30. TheUnknownOne

    TheUnknownOne Member

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    Totally.

    inb4 infractions/bans because of pm spam


    Pokemon = / = Mafia
    Wiki = / = Mafia
     
  31. Zzyzx Road

    Zzyzx Road Member

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    As you might have seen, I try to review most themes and give advice in all of them. In the specific Ozma case, I pointed out that player themes don't work and that it gives no innovation to the Mafia Channel. If I'm not being clear enough in all my posts, you guys can ping me whenever you want to complain about the way we're doing it. I'm not the boss, but if there's problem with my reviews, you can bother me to hell with it.

    I just don't get one single thing - you complain that we don't give enough adivice, and complain that we are not going straight to the point and rejecting everything that seems bad?
     
  32. IceKirby

    IceKirby A.K.A. RiceKirby

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    This is actually my main concern regarding Mafia Channel as a whole (not only Mafia Review): It's becoming more and more about mafia admins and moderators than being about players. Mafia is a game, and a game is nothing without players. Yet, if what those players want (within reasonable levels) go against what the people with power wants, then the players are the ones to take the hit.
    I'm not talking about allowing themes like Spamfest (which is not within the reasonable part I mentioned), but those 3 mentioned themes were well built and well loved. Those 3 themes were among the top 10 most started themes for the time /starttheme was disabled. I always thought the mafia statistics page was reset so we would know which themes were worth being kept, and those 3 got the channel's approval (by the time of the deletion, SSBB+ was 1st, WWW was 6th and Rotom was 9th, not counting Default). But still, the players' opinions (again, the reasonable ones) are rather irrelevant. It's not about what we want to play, it's about what those people want us to play.

    And my second concern regarding Mafia Channel is: Are we not allowed to have non-mafia themes? As in, is really Mafia Channel only about Mafia, with no different and experimental (but reasonable) themes allowed? And no, I'm not talking about Rotom here. I coded a new theme for fun, but it's hardly a mafia game and I'm afraid it wouldn't get approved, since the way how non-mafia themes are treated are not specified in the Mafia Review rules. I still think non-mafia themes, if played only a few times, are really fun to spice the channel (now I'm talking about themes like Rotom, Vepix and Castle). I could even code a "Increased Delay List" to make some themes available less often, but I need to know the answer to that first: Are non-mafia themes allowed?
     
  33. Tesla Elesa

    Tesla Elesa Almost Quality

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    Actually WWII was way more popular than FiM before the new system was implemented :x. I'm not the best coder out there, and FiM has a long ways to go before it gets completely balanced (lol WWII), but I try.

    Beautiful post Steel. Why don't you post like that more often?

    I'd argue that Rotom and WWW were great themes, precisely because they catered to public opinion and were quite original. I would approve them in a heartbeat, although probably not the rest of QC. Not all themes need to have the same basic constituent elements imo. Noobkiller themes are horrible and should never be on the server, but a lack of villagers and a lot of PRs does not necessarily designate a theme as so (although they usually do). Just look at FiM. 3 villagers early on, village gets a ton of PRs; it must be poorly coded right? Not according to QC. The key is that while there are a ton of PRs, I've kept them balanced by not throwing commands out like Halloween candy, and at the same time keeping them unique-ish (100% haxer Pinkie Pie, broadcasting copper Applejack, invincible team finding Fluttershy, etc.). Mafia roles are commensurately interesting too, and it never delves into a killfest like other PR loaded themes.

    Sorry if I sound like I'm bragging. I actually dislike how village invariably wins in FiM and I don't find it to be nearly as good as others say it is. Just trying to prove a point here.

    ---
    FF, Zelda, and Myth are shining examples of theming. Created early on in the server's history, they still haven't lost any of their luster since their inception. You know how some themes feel dated as newer commands are added? Doesn't happen with these because of how good they are. People still start them on a regular basis. No one says "needs moar converts/PRs/whatever." If any themes can be called classics, it's them. And yeah, going off on a tangent.

    Currently Mafia Review is being inundated with themes, and we can't keep up with them all. Go ahead and PM QC members (or at least me) if you want to get yours reviewed quicker, just remember to be polite and understanding when asking.

    You should tell an auth (Steel probs) about the QC who responded rudely to you so he or she can be given a stern warning for not treating a player with respect. Ultimately it's his or her own choice to not respond to the request, but he or she cannot claim to speak for the entire QC team as done so.

    ---
    QFT. Like I said in my Evolution Game thread, lately I've been feeling a vibe of elitism from Mafia Review, and I don't like it. Players are what makes the game, and relegating them to second class citizens in favour of what QC is ruinous to the entire system. Quality is subjective, and although QC should take precedence, the hoi polloi should have some say too. Every time Rotom has been brought up in Mafia Channel, response has been nothing but positive. Shouldn't such near unanimous praise warrant overriding the general opinions of QC? At least in the case of Rotom, while not 100% emblematic of the nature of Mafia, it's fairly well coded, and more importantly, fun.
     
    Last edited: Sep 23, 2012
  34. Jalmont

    Jalmont nothere

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    Take up this incident with Steel. I am sure he would be happy to solve this case of rudeness. I also agree that the speed of accepting / rejecting themes is slow, but I think at the end of the day the more time that is spent reviewing themes is better for the state of the mafia channel. That being said there are certain themes that have been completely ignored (cough classic cough) but I can't really say that is the result of QC members being negligent or OPs not pestering members to check their theme enough. if you want your theme to be approved go bother QC members.

    So basically you are unable to ask other QC members to approve your theme because you are "uncomfortable with them. That's a really lame excuse. If you want someone to approve your team ask QC members; it's not that they don't want to review themes, they can't review every single theme within the space of a couple days. Also, don't take his advice on revealing this QC member to the public. Talk to Steel, get it solved that way. No need to start any additional drama.
    So basically you start out by insulting the mods by ad hominem. Nice. That's a good way to get things solved. Then you question the validity of MeowMix being a QC member by making a generalized statement about how his experience doesn't relate to mafia. In case you were unaware QC in pokemon stands for the same thing here. They review things. If you're trying to say there's no connection at all; I am sorry, but you are wrong. People like you should stop whining about stupid crap and maybe start trying to solve the problem.

    Underliining point: Things are moving slowly yes; but instead of complaining and whining how everything is "biased" (seriously this almost seems like an attempt to get certain people on QC / MA) you can contribute to the project by actually reviewing other people's themes! Don't be passive, be proactive and maybe things will move a little faster.

    Sorry if this comes off harsh, I mean no ill will to anyone and am not trying to insult anyone at all.

    jeez tesla ninja'd most of the points i was trying to make -__-
     
  35. Demonic Cake

    Demonic Cake The cake is not a lie...

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    Alright, may I take this opportunity to post my problems with it?

    I put it in secret so if you say no you don't have to read it. >>
    [secret]I feel that people are being too picky over themes. A theme can't be perfect or there'd only be what, two maximum? As all the rest would count as reskins of the one perfect theme.
    It's upsetting, I have to say. I just want to get a theme in so I can actually come back, and the more people are being picky the less likely I'll be able to because I'll get depressed more from it and being lonely more and I'll stop ranting about myself now.
    Seriously, could you stop being so picky? Just every little thing (at least in mine) seems to be being picked apart. I appreciate that it's useful in the case of a missing kill. But for things like 'not enough hax' when I was told beforehand to not put nearly so much hax in, it's seriously upsetting. Cake out etc.[/secret]

    Oh, and thanks for putting a load of insults to me in that secret tag at the start. REALLY mafde me feel better. /sarcasm
     
  36. TheUnknownOne

    TheUnknownOne Member

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    Statistics:

    FF: 8 approvals / 0 rejects
    - 10 posts
    - 200 views
    - Approved in 5:52

    Unicorn: 0 approvals / 0 rejects
    - 26 posts
    - 253 views
    - Submitted 8 days ago

    Explain how this is possible. I have asked QC plenty of times to check it out.
     
  37. Mr.Anonymous

    Mr.Anonymous Member

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    Because apparently FF is a "good theme" and it's "beloved" by all mafia players and there's "nothing" wrong with it. (Emphasis on the word NOTHING)
     
  38. Elements

    Elements BOOMER SOONER Forum Moderator Server Staff Forum Moderator Server Staff

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    Keep your sarcasm in check when making intelligent threads. Posting like that helps no one and only reflects poorly on you.
     
  39. TheUnknownOne

    TheUnknownOne Member

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    He is making a point here.
     
  40. Mr.Anonymous

    Mr.Anonymous Member

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    It's a fact though, if you check the original post on FF, most people are implying or stating that there is nothing wrong with the theme, so explain to me how I was being "sarcastic" as you quote.
    http://pokemon-online.eu/forums/showthread.php?15900-Final-Fantasy-(FF)
     
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