[Retired] Garden

Discussion in 'Theme Development' started by Angel Flonne, Sep 20, 2012.

  1. NAVIDAD PIRATE

    NAVIDAD PIRATE THE PLEASURE OF BEING CUMMED INSIDE

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    nah, everyone converts after n3 anyway, the PL would only be delaying (which could be helpful if a teammate is also converted alongside it)
     
  2. Trosh

    Trosh Lolarising since 2011.

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    Anne, I promised you a rate a while back and here you have it!

    When I look at themes to criticise them, I look at them the following way:
    First, I try to find things that I dislike about it, or that others could dislike.
    Then, I divide them into three categories: errors (things in the code), flaws (actual faults) and imperfections (subjective, nitpick, standard mafia issues like villies being sitting ducks, etc).

    Why is that relevant? Because I looked at your theme and saw a problem most other people saw: the reliance on a conspirator at the start of the game.
    You, however, made that into an imperfection. It could easily be a game-breaking flaw, but you avoided it perfectly by making it relevant only in the first few turns. And I just can't spot any actual flaws, really (except one thing I already contacted you about, 2x2x2x3x2417), while it's so creative at the same time. (js it could be my fault that I can't find the flaws, stupid me, but I don't assume it :P)

    This theme gets the unofficial Trosh thumbs up, and I really hope it's implemented.
     
  3. Oh So Shoddy

    Oh So Shoddy Devil's Advocate

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    I'm really sorry that I didn't get to this theme sooner, because I absolutely love it. I can see that a lot of changes have already been made and I can definitely say they've all been for the good. I love the concept behind it and the way you put it together. I think you did a very good job.

    Before I approve however, there are a few things I see that need fixing...
    1. All the seeds are said to be able to 'grow' themselves on the third night, therefore the initial recharge should be 3, not 2.

    2. Eucalyptus' protect and the gardener's water have the same priority, 1. One should be higher. I'd say the gardener's.

    3. Citrus is said to have 40% night kill evasion but "kill": {"mode": "ignore"}

    4. What do you think of Grass' description being something like "you are far too common to do anything other than 'sway' (vote) with all the other sweet scented plants.

    5. Sweet Pea's description should say it can safeguard "others or itself" not "others and itself", since it only has one safeguard per night. You should also add the info about the daytime revenge kill .

    6. I think the samurai knowing the bodyguard makes it a bit too easy to survive and connect, though I can live with it.

    7. Rose's limit should be 1 and its recharge should be 2.

    8. Mafia Magnolia's distract has the same priority as good side Geranium's distract. One should be more powerful than the other.

    9. Connifer's poison should have a recharge of 2.

    10. Robin's consume should have a limit of 2. Its distract should have a recharge of 2.
    [/HIDE]
    Take care of those issues and you've got my full approval.
     
  4. Crystal Moogle

    Crystal Moogle Ayaya~ Administrator Administrator

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    initialrecharge of 3 would mean it works after the 3rd night (ie on the 4th night) rather than on the 3rd night. 2 is correct there.

    Unless I've misread something somewhere.
     
  5. IceKirby

    IceKirby A.K.A. RiceKirby

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    initialrecharge 3 = Can be used N3. That's how Dark Matter and Copy Kirby are coded in Kirby theme.
     
  6. Angel Flonne

    Angel Flonne Guest

    Edits edited! Please go to the pastebin link for now.
     
  7. Oh So Shoddy

    Oh So Shoddy Devil's Advocate

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    Edits are incomplete, check your messages.
     
  8. Oh So Shoddy

    Oh So Shoddy Devil's Advocate

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    Bumping to show that edits have been made.

    I'm hereby posting my APPROVAL.
     
  9. Angel Flonne

    Angel Flonne Guest

    Needs moar bold, though.
     
  10. Narshen

    Narshen Dragon Lord

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    Now that the Robin has become a Zebra Finch, I have no choice but to APPROVE
     
  11. NAVIDAD PIRATE

    NAVIDAD PIRATE THE PLEASURE OF BEING CUMMED INSIDE

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    Good work etc. Approved. [4]
     
    Last edited: Sep 26, 2012
  12. Angel Flonne

    Angel Flonne Guest

    Yay! This means.... 2 more to go! But which 2? I'm excited! x3
     
  13. Dark Phoenix

    Dark Phoenix Multidimensional Hero

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    Have been following this theme for awhile but I could offer no incredulous insight as this game has grown to become very "anti-mafia". I think this theme should be publicized to show the masses how a true anti-meta game should be made and not be thrown around loftily as there has been incredible creativity put into this.

    I just this means I'll be approving it now. (#5)
     
    Last edited: Sep 26, 2012
  14. Oh So Shoddy

    Oh So Shoddy Devil's Advocate

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    Oh noes! he didn't approve with a [totalApprovalsSoFar], he only accepted... Too bad, that would have been the fifth approval.
     
  15. t3 the third

    t3 the third Member

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    I'm in the authors list but I only helped with JSON coding and not with creative idea input etc. So I can definitely approve this. Bow down to the all-powerful conspiragardener.
     
  16. Oh So Shoddy

    Oh So Shoddy Devil's Advocate

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    If you're credited then you can't approve.
     
    Last edited: Sep 26, 2012
  17. Water

    Water Well Respected and Exceptionally Handsome User Forum Moderator Channel Leader Forum Moderator Channel Leader

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    Easily the most unique use of conspirator I've seen.
    Looks fun.
    My only issue is it's not going to be fun for me to be on server when everyone is shouting "Water me!"

    Joking aside, Approved [6]
     
  18. Oh So Shoddy

    Oh So Shoddy Devil's Advocate

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    This theme has been approved but is still showing a few minor errors in the code. Will be uploaded as soon as these are taken care of.
     
  19. Angel Flonne

    Angel Flonne Guest

    Should I make "Bad Seeds" and "Good Seeds"?
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 27, 2012
  20. Li Q. Assir

    Li Q. Assir Mindblower

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    I think that could be a good idea: every seed on its own team.

    --------

    I just played a 12 people game and it lasted forever!!! you should think on way to make them last less... maybe a smaller standby?
    Oh, and I think Gardener is very OP. He basically wins the game, if doesn't get poisoned. No real strategy needed for him.
     
  21. Scatterbrain

    Scatterbrain You only live once*

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    Good job! Ww's win message says '~Players,' which is supposed to bf ~Players~ . A very inventive and creative theme. Definitely something the MAs should consider approving
     
  22. Beast

    Beast I do what I want

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    This is already approved. I played it yesterday technically.
     
  23. NAVIDAD PIRATE

    NAVIDAD PIRATE THE PLEASURE OF BEING CUMMED INSIDE

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    yeah, I was a part of that 12 player game and it took quite a bit longer than it should have

    maybe have some important roles start out already fully bloomed n1 and let the gardener do the rest? also being able to hint at a person's role before their watering would be really nice but I know that would require more coding
     
  24. Angel Flonne

    Angel Flonne Guest

    I'll probably make gardener's water, like, 5 or something.
     
  25. Tesla Elesa

    Tesla Elesa Almost Quality

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    How about shortening the standby phase a bit?

    Like I said, add in a convertmsg for the Gardener so people can figure out which roles are there.

    And I dislike the notion of "Bad Seed." Kind of ruins the point of not knowing what role you are.
     
  26. Li Q. Assir

    Li Q. Assir Mindblower

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    Maybe if they were just "onlist", could be nice. They'd think they are common seeds, but people would know what was being watered by the gardener. Something like the millers. They're onlist as FCM/IM/Mafia, but they think they are ordinary villagers.
     
    Last edited: Sep 29, 2012
  27. Angel Flonne

    Angel Flonne Guest

    Gardener is very OP. He basically wins the game, if doesn't get poisoned.

    Inspector is very OP. He basically wins the game, if BG doesn't die.

    Anyway, if you think Gardener is OP, he can choose to convert to a businessman who has 9999 votes, but is vulnerable to stuff.
    I don't even get why there's so much hatemail on the gardener. After night 3 , is he OP? Come at me. >:3

    Oh yeah, for those who think garden takes forever... At 9 players and above, Gardener can water 4 or 5 times. I forget. And, in huge games, gardener can water 6 times, if I remember correctly.

    So there.
     
  28. Li Q. Assir

    Li Q. Assir Mindblower

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    That game happened when gardener could water 3 people, if I'm not wrong, and himself had the 9999 votes. You changed these things after my post! That is unfair :(
     
  29. Angel Flonne

    Angel Flonne Guest

    I did? o.o
    Anyway, I changed these stuff based on my own will. But it works out anyway!
     
  30. Oh So Shoddy

    Oh So Shoddy Devil's Advocate

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    I think a part of the problem with the length of games is having to conceivably wait 3 nights before being able to do anything. 3 nights means sitting through 6 phases doing absolutely nothing and people lose interest that way. I'd like to see this changed to 2 nights and then judge whether the effect is positive. I think that will be more effective than giving the gardener more watering ability.

    I agree that the bad seeds shouldn't be separated from the good seeds. That defeats the purpose.
     
  31. Li Q. Assir

    Li Q. Assir Mindblower

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    Sweet Pea's help text says it can use the /aroma command, but the codes say another thing - the command is safeguard:

    "actions": {
    "night": {
    "safeguard": [/HIDE]

    (21:51:25) AmericanHistory: pro.
    (21:51:27) Otaku588: nice
    (21:51:28) Antigem: tsuyo and li q. assir are obv baddies
    (21:51:28) Karp Karpity: nice
    (21:51:29) ±CommandBot: The command aroma doesn't exist
    (21:51:31) Antigem: I am pro rander guys
    (21:51:33) BeastCharizard: we can all /grow now.
    (21:51:34) Tsuyo: How..?
    (21:51:34) Fynecian: Now we can all become grass.
    (21:51:35) Fynecian: Wee.
    (21:51:35) ±Game: You are a Sweet Pea!
    (21:51:36) ±Game: You have grown into the Sweet Pea! Your tingling aroma allows you to safeguard your partners with /aroma [name]. You can also use it on yourself. You have 2 votes.

    (21:51:37) matthewbny: Well
    (21:51:41) ±CommandBot: The command aroma doesn't exist
    (21:51:41) Calico Slushies: I love being grass
    (21:51:41) Volcarona Tamer: lol
    (21:51:43) Antigem: you tried to kill me!!
    (21:51:44) matthewbny: I was Begonia but now I'm Grass
    (21:51:45) ±CommandBot: The command aroma doesn't exist
    (21:51:46) *** Calico Slushies knocks on wood
    (21:51:47) XxkakapaxX: what happened?
    (21:51:48) Karp Karpity: ima grass
    (21:51:49) AmericanHistory: use /grow [name] guys
    (21:51:53) Tsuyo: Antigem your logic is flawed[/HIDE]

    It's not on the help message that Sweet Pea revenges daykills (or reveal daykiller???):

    "daykill": "revealkiller",
    "daykillrevengemsg": "~Self~ shouts out that ~Target~ killed him before ~Target~ takes the Cannonball down."[/HIDE]
     
  32. Angel Flonne

    Angel Flonne Guest

    On it etc. and yes, I'll take OSS's advice into consideration. Tesla's too
     
  33. DatXFire

    DatXFire Never gonna use an avatar

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    I'd like to point out a problem I noticed with the Unflowery team in roles2. It consists of only the Moss and the Fern. Moss has -50 votes and Fern has -3 votes with distract. This means that there is no conceivable way for the Unflowery team to win unless there is an extremely luck x-fire. They could possibly stall and prevent themselves from getting voted but that just ends in a tie. I think that this should be fixed. Also, I see no reason for the "consp" role because it is not included in roles1, roles2, roles3, roles4, or roles5. Not a major issue, but I thought I'd point that out as well.
     
  34. Oh So Shoddy

    Oh So Shoddy Devil's Advocate

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    They seem to be more stall oriented, which I'm ok with personally. But you also overlooked some teammates.

    ±Side: The Unflowery consists of Algae, Conifer, Fern, Moss.
     
  35. DatXFire

    DatXFire Never gonna use an avatar

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    But I'm saying that Algae and Conifer don't come in until later. Under roles2 only Fern and Moss are in. So in smaller games, if you get one of these roles you have no way of winning unless you get extremely luck with x-fire. They have negative votes and no kills, poison, or converts. So in these smaller games they can't win. I'm fine with stall oriented teams, but what's the point of stalling if you have no way of getting rid of foes?
     
  36. Angel Flonne

    Angel Flonne Guest

    I shall add a poison to Moss, then.
     
  37. DatXFire

    DatXFire Never gonna use an avatar

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  38. Angel Flonne

    Angel Flonne Guest

    How does a grass grow into a grass?
     
  39. DatXFire

    DatXFire Never gonna use an avatar

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    You tell me, I'm just letting you know that your theme is borked and disabled and it needs to be fixed.
     
  40. IceKirby

    IceKirby A.K.A. RiceKirby

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    The Grass growing into Grass happened because the /grow actions have "common": "Role". Change them all to "Self".

    Can't say if that is what caused the error though (would be easier if someone had saved a /readlog for that game).