Unicorn

Discussion in 'Theme Development' started by TheUnknownOne, Sep 16, 2012.

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  1. TheUnknownOne

    TheUnknownOne Member

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    Got any ideas for the theme then?
     
  2. Katia

    Katia Haxy Haxy!

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    I have an idea, but it is probably a bad one.

    How about you make the mad scientist a solo role since he is mad after all. Then his mutated unicorns become poison bombs, but they live for only half of the original time. Then maybe give him a decent chance to avoid night kills and then everyone will have to worry about accidentally hitting a mutated unicorn.
     
  3. TheUnknownOne

    TheUnknownOne Member

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    He should be sided with the humans though, but the changes to the mutated unicorns sound cool to me

    Edit: Poison now lasts a little bit longer, mutated unicorns have mode:poisonattackerevenifprotected, which is silent and lasts 2 nights, and scientist now has 30% chance for kill evasion
     
    Last edited: Oct 20, 2012
  4. Beast

    Beast I do what I want

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    Minor errors found in your script:

    Your role Leader-2 gets hax on an inexistent safeguard night action.
    [/HIDE]

    Inspector 3 should say they reveal in the help message. We all know people don't read that little message before killing. I don't half the time because I assume it doesn't tell me anything useful.
    Black Leader and Grey Leader should mention they have to wait 3 nights to use their /kill2. As of right now it seem like they can use it whenever but just have to wait 3 days afterwards.
    Anyone who shares a kill should be told they share a kill. For example Grey Unicorn shares a kill but isn't told that.


    If I understand correctly until later in the game village doesn't get a kill right? If I am right, are you sure that is a good idea? If I am wrong then ignore that I said anything about it.
     
  5. TheUnknownOne

    TheUnknownOne Member

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    Last edited: Nov 1, 2012
  6. IceKirby

    IceKirby A.K.A. RiceKirby

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    This is no bug in the theme checker. Hax is based on the action object's name, not on the commands listed under "command". If no one needs to input /safeguard, that hax will never be triggered.
     
  7. TheUnknownOne

    TheUnknownOne Member

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    That's some interesting behaviour.
     
  8. two sides of one coin

    two sides of one coin sick of all her shit

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    Personally I don't think Mutated Unicorns should win with Humans.
     
  9. TheUnknownOne

    TheUnknownOne Member

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    It makes them pretty much useless otherwise.. Maybe let them win with their original team?
     
  10. Fegelein

    Fegelein The Mechanic

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    The summary is a bit strange IMO, if you want to keep it like that, that is fine.
    I've always disliked Bodyguards being able to evade, and 5% may seem low, it certainly damages the mafia if it occurs. Give it something else IMO.
    I don't understand why Leader has -1 in the first case, perhaps a vote of 1.5?
    Give the Millers hax IMO, because if a Unicorn gets no hax on Vigi, they'll know they are Miller
    Why do some roles have team-reveal and some team-reveal-with-roles?
    I think the Black and Grey Inspector should have a chance to win alone, perhaps higher votes or sharing the kill?
    I'd make the 2 opposing Unicorn sides different, maybe different abilities, but enough to keep them balanced.

    However, sufficient development has been made, and the teams are fairly balanced. I'm going to Approve [1] because I see a great deal of potential, and anything overpowered can be caught in testing. Plus it should open up room for more approvals.
     
  11. TheUnknownOne

    TheUnknownOne Member

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  12. Oh So Shoddy

    Oh So Shoddy Devil's Advocate

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    I'm inclined to believe that themes with background stories are more appealing to the player base. And those that are created from scratch with unique concepts need to be quite innovative to garner enough interest. Unfortunately I'm not seeing that with this theme. It seems to be more of an exercise in coding. And even with that in mind, there's nothing that sets it apart from any other standard theme. Maybe a different point in time this would have received a bit of praise but as we get more themes into the rotation the level of scrutiny will only grow. And as it is, themes that do nothing more than utilize basic mafia commands are nothing more than default v2.

    I decline. [1]
     
  13. TheUnknownOne

    TheUnknownOne Member

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    The theme has every command except stalk and expose. I was planning to add stalk too...

    Gonna redo most help messages and role names.

    Edit: done
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 18, 2012
  14. Tesla Elesa

    Tesla Elesa Almost Quality

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    If you add Rarity to this I swear I'll approve this regardless of the rest of the the theme.

    But yeah, I like it, I just don't feel like it stands out in any way shape or form. While some other decently coded, yet kind of boring themes did get through in the past (you know who you are), with the 30+ themes we have now, we really have got to make sure that each and every additional theme we add to the server counts. (yeah just paraphrased OSS shoot me)

    And I'm just not feeling that from Unicorn. The flavour is a ton better now, and I like its simplicity, yet hectic feel, but I'm not sure this is something that we would want.

    Feel free to keep on working on it though. That's what Deria's been doing with Castle, and I must say, although it's still definitely a noobkiller, it hasn't lost any of its original luster. He still has the original goal of a structured (somewhat) killfest in sight, and a few minor role changes were all he needed to make each role more useful. Now, it still has a far ways to go before it gets approved, but I think it serves well as an example of a theme that is run down by the QC at first, but still has promise.
     
  15. TheUnknownOne

    TheUnknownOne Member

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    Comments in bold
     
  16. Beast

    Beast I do what I want

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    I have a strange feeling this theme is going to split the QC members in their opinions. Some people think this theme has great potential while others think he needs a lot of work until it should be approved. As of right now you are stuck at 0 with the one approval and the one decline. This only leave 15 more QC members to make their decision. Right now I am torn between accepting the theme and giving it more time to see how it develops. I feel you have done a great job with the theme and that it would be a great addition. All of the changes made greatly increase the enjoyability of the theme on paper. I would really like to test the theme in order to find out if it is as good as it seems. I looked over it and I didn't find anything major that needed to be fixed, assuming you update the github page.

    I have made my decision to Approve [2]. I really think you earned it.
     
  17. TheUnknownOne

    TheUnknownOne Member

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    I've added a new role: White Unicorn Commander (night kill w/ 3 charges) which comes at 17 or 18 players iirc, removed nightkill w/ 3 charges from White Unicorn King-2, added "kill" standby hax (first theme to do this!?) to Mad Scientist (20% chance), made Mad Scientist's mutate (convert) fail 10% chance of the time, fixed Intelligent White Unicorn's inspect to go after Flying Unicorn (possible deadtalking), and added the "minplayers" attribute (6 players is now the minimum to play, because 3 PRs vs 2 baddies ain't fun :|). Also modified some messages. [this patch @ goodies/mafiathemes/Unicorn Theme.txt]

    I've added a new interesting role: The Colorless Unicorn. Uses the new copy. It appears at 25 players and wins with anyone except the Humans, and can copy to any role except the Humans (Colorless can team up with Rainbow very well. Should claim when there are no Humans left, because every side would love to have another player with them (except if it's a villager. :P). (Also made the game compatible for 32 players)

    I'm going to try (or just make it less obvious! :P) drop the village/mafia1/mafia2 flavor which is in a lot of themes (yes, even FF). I'll begin tomorrow.

    Dat quad post (for a reason)!

    Here's another major update, this time removing the Grey Unicorns (making Black Unicorns more powerful) and combining the Rainbow and Colorless Unicorns into a new side: The Chromatic Unicorns.

    Probably going to annoy the QCs some more because now, playtesting will be quite necessary with these changes!

    New link: https://github.com/TheUnknownOne/PO-Server-Tools/blob/devel/goodies/mafiathemes/Unicorn.json
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 18, 2012
  18. Tesla Elesa

    Tesla Elesa Almost Quality

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    Well you certainly did make it more interesting. I'd be willing to give it a shot. What's all this about testing though?
     
  19. TheUnknownOne

    TheUnknownOne Member

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    I just want to make sure it's balanced! I'll probably do some testing on a private server.
     
  20. Li Q. Assir

    Li Q. Assir Mindblower

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    Playtest can be done at PO2 Server, whenever QC members feel like it, preferrably when the author is online to real-time update.
     
  21. TheUnknownOne

    TheUnknownOne Member

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    Fegelein said the theme needed 3 approvals..
     
  22. DatXFire

    DatXFire Never gonna use an avatar

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    I think there is one thing really preventing QC from posting in this, we don't know what to say exactly about it. It's got some great ideas for roles but we don't really know how enjoyable it will be. As I've previously said the two villages that are exactly the same can easily work for you or against you. The roadblock that is in our way now is that it can't be tested due to the amount of approvals needed, so this may also be preventing QC from approving/declining.
     
  23. Oh So Shoddy

    Oh So Shoddy Devil's Advocate

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    Or maybe it just isn't appealing enough. *Gasp*!
     
  24. TheUnknownOne

    TheUnknownOne Member

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    Erm.. there are no "equal" mafias anymore. You should read the code (again)!
     
  25. Professor Oak

    Professor Oak same Forum Administrator Server Owner Social Media Rep Forum Administrator Server Owner Social Media Rep

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    If the White Unicorn King listed for the smaller games is the leader (aka mayor), why does it not have an extra vote like its larger-games counterpart? I fail to see the reason behind doing this completely, and I'd recommend just using the improved 2 vote version.

    Also, having an inspector that can kill and sometimes reveal himself so he can get protection due to his confirmed status, with the only risk being the death of the bodyguard or the daykiller? That's ridiculously overpowered. And here I was thinking that having just the revealing inspector was bad enough...

    Gonna again state that not all villager roles need a hax chance, and that giving them such a chance warps the whole point of the game, as it removes voting power as the village's main strength and instead replaces it with a luck-based chance of finding out the bad guys.

    Letting the bad team's village have voting power over the main village (1.2 votes) is just not right, especially considering the evil team will be killing with greater ease. It is an unnecessary addition that could give an unfair advantage to the bad guys.

    I don't get the point in varying the different roles for different player counts at all. It just seems like a waste of time and code to me. Can you expand on exactly why you've made this decision?

    I do like the limited Vigilante that knows the Mayor though. Good job.

    The Chromatic Unicorn team seems like it'd control the game, and it'd be extremely overpowered if the Flying Unicorn links with them. It can change others into mindless roles that win if they survive, and can copy any other role in the game respectively. If they link with the Flying Unicorn, that is 6 kills per day/night cycle, plus the removal of a potential threat to their alliance. That is far too good... not to mention that if the going gets tough, they can always just muscle out with votes by converting to Flying Rainbow Unicorns, having a combined vote total of 7 (including the Rainbow Unicorn) and having 2 unlynchable roles. Late game, that is unstoppable. You even recommend that the Flying Unicorn link up with the Chromatic team in the Flying Unicorn's role text! That's insane! Killing them stops them, as does the eventual poison from transforming, but that is still ridiculous.

    The Mutated Unicorns created by the scientists look like they are quite useful in helping the village out. However, with the large amount of kills being done in very large games (up to 10 per night phase, and 2 per day), this can result in the poison caused by killing a Mutated Unicorn not being effective at all.

    Finally, you need to remove all of the Grey Unicorn mentions, as you removed them.



    -----

    I've been following the development of this theme without posting, as I do with several others, and whilst many attempts to improve the theme have been made, I feel as if this is getting further and further out of control as opposed to slowing starting to balance out.

    I don't think this can be saved, so I am rejecting [2] this theme.

    I also strongly encourage Mafia QC members to grow some testicles and actually pass judgement on this theme. It has been in Mafia Review for 2 months now, and there has been more than enough time to see whether or not it is going to evolve into a good theme or not. This theme has only been reviewed 4 times in total over a 2 month period (including my review - something I rarely do), which is absolutely disgraceful. Mafia QC members need to stop being afraid to speak their mind and review themes.
     
  26. TheUnknownOne

    TheUnknownOne Member

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    Expect to see a patch in ~10-30 minutes.
     
  27. Beast

    Beast I do what I want

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    Cant their team just PM them? If I missed something then sorry.
     
  28. TheUnknownOne

    TheUnknownOne Member

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    They can, if they want to. I've seen that not every mafia team tends to connect via pm, so it might be a bit interesting.
     
  29. TheUnknownOne

    TheUnknownOne Member

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    Implemented "good" and "bad" mutated unicorns (good poisons killers, bad poisons inspectors, distractors, and protectors). Good were white unicorns or the chromatic unicorns, bad were black unicorns or the flying unicorn.
     
  30. Drapht

    Drapht Move on

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    its all been said approve [3]
     
  31. Li Q. Assir

    Li Q. Assir Mindblower

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    I know you are working on this theme so hard. But I really think it is not outstanding yet, so I'll reject [3] it for now. Sorry.
     
  32. Katia

    Katia Haxy Haxy!

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    I am happy to Approve [4] this.
     
  33. Zzyzx Road

    Zzyzx Road Member

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    I guess we've left this hanging for too long; I myself had reduced my activity and stuff but now I'm seeing the changes I'll also approve [5].
     
  34. TheUnknownOne

    TheUnknownOne Member

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    Suprised that this would ever get bumped!

    If anyone still has an idea I might consider implementing it.. :)
     
  35. Serpentine

    Serpentine Member

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    Seems decent enough, and I'd like to see this theme back. A lot of people liked it when it first came out, and you've done some interesting things with it. Approve[6]
     
  36. TheUnknownOne

    TheUnknownOne Member

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    Bump.. Is this still going to be reviewed?
     
  37. Fuzzysqurl

    Fuzzysqurl baa baa mareep I do what I want Server Owner Developer I do what I want Server Owner Developer

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    I'd like to see the theme in action before I pass judgement.

    Recommending testing.
     
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