Uhm... But once you're aware of this trick, you will be able to find Kuja strating from the 1st night. :D
Thanks for the input guys. Major thanks go to Fuzzysqurl for getting the info added. I'll go ahead and modify that to include that Kefka's kill gets high priority and then upload it. BeastCharizard is absolutely right, the info is autogenerated, for the most part. Cecil will be added to villageCantLose, been planned for a while. Kefka / Kuja have a really unique mechanic by which they can identify each other. Even if you know the trick, there are no guarantees that (in a large game) you'll be able to find each other n1. I've personally had many occasions where I only connected with Kuja n2 due to the amount of people in game. Additionally, it adds arisk to kuja randvoting if Kefka is not known,
Personally, I always do that. Kuja won't find Kefka til he votes, which is making them impossible to find each other.
Something I noticed is that when Auron haxes Judge, he can then reveal a Solidor as well meaning they get voted out for no other reason but that Judge was haxed. Maybe make it so Auron haxes only the role not who the role's action is being on?
Fixed. But yeah, you are right. Auron haxing Yunalesca will only reveal one Sin, but Tifa haxing Judge will most likely reveal 2 House Solidor. This could be fixed by removing the "revealTeam" line from Tifa's hax.
Nice modification on Tifa, that House hax was quite unfair against House Solidor's side... (P.S.: Once, as Judge, I tried to spam /protect on non-partners in order to troll Tifa, but I failed. :( Instead, I got voted out ;-;)
A general consensus in a half-dead Mafia channel agrees that both Sin and House are vastly underpowered compared to Heroes and Kefka/Kuja. We rarely see Seph/Ulti, so its harder to judge if they are balanced, but House especially. Once Larsa dies, Judge is virtually worthless. You rarely see Vayne around too. Once Jecht dies, Yunalesca is virtually worthless. You rarely see Seymour around too.
I agree with Fuzzy, I also said that in project mafia channel a while ago. House and Sin are a bit UP in comparaison to Heroes, Kefka, Ultimecia and Sephiroth.
I also think Sin is more UP than House. House have an inspect, and a protect, and Sin have one member immune to distracts and a distract. Seems like on paper House have an advantage
Yeah, but House of Solidor can be relentlessly PL stalled, while Sin cannot. However, with a Mafia team, BG > Insp all day long.
Both House and Sin have their advantages and disadvantages: Pros: things that a team has in advantsge, compared to the other. Cons: things that a team have as a disadvantage that the other doesn't. - House: Pros: has priority, a inspect and a BG; Cons: when tifa haxes Judge's protect, thay get to know who was the protected person, aka another Solidor member, meaning one hax, two members out. - Sin: Pros: has some immunity to PL, the highest PL priority, meaning if Yuna manages to distract Tifa/Tidus, Sin can't be PL stalled; Cons: Yuna dies if she distracts Kefka or Seph. I guess that if we ponderate all these aspects, we can conclude that there is balance between those teams.
(20:09:27) ±Game: CarlesNB (Moogle) has fallen! (20:09:27) ±Game: 'My blade will lead me to the light!' Dark Knight Cecil has transformed into Paladin Cecil, altering his abilities! (20:09:27) Read my lips - mercy is for wimps! There's a reason 'oppose' rhymes with 'dispose'...If they get in your way, kill them! (Kefka's Posse [Chastin] has won!) (20:09:27) ±Game: The Heroes (Supergrass) lose! Isn't Paladin Cecil in Villagecantlose?
Dat VCLR (18:36:59) Times Up! : (18:36:59) You have been killed! (18:36:59) ±Game: Fuzzysqurl (Auron) has fallen! (18:36:59) ±Game: 'My blade will lead me to the light!' Dark Knight Cecil has transformed into Paladin Cecil, altering his abilities! (18:36:59) Read my lips - mercy is for wimps! There's a reason 'oppose' rhymes with 'dispose'...If they get in your way, kill them! (Kefka's Posse [pikachu33] has won!) (18:36:59) ±Game: The Heroes (Draco1770) lose! Soon, I hoped, meant faster than a week
Can we get a valid and up to date Pastebin link on the server? Whenever you do /themeinfo FF, it comes back with an Unknown Paste ID. I feel that it should be a basic requirement so that way people can know the theme better. Thankfully an older version had the same info I was looking for (namely, hax rates) but that older version isn't even accessible to everyone.
https://gist.github.com/raw/55c0472bc87b14f75898/ff.json It's not Pastebin, but the link issue is fixed.
(21:17:46) Current Roles: Auron, Cactuar, Cloud, Dark Knight Cecil, Jecht, Judge Gabranth, Kefka, Larsa Solidor, Lightning, Locke, Moogle, Moogle, Moogle, Tifa, Yunalesca, Zidane. Village: BG, BG, Samurai, Inspector, Fake inspector, Spy, PL, and 3 citizens Mafia combined: 3 killers, PL, BG (Killer, PL+Killer, BG+Killer) This is fair... how? Village had absolutely no chance of losing.
This village, unconnected, isn't stronger than any factions. Cactuar would mess up things for village, Cloud, Cecil or Locke could be killed anytime with a distract on their protectors or a Kefka hit. Maybe Sin was a bit stronger there in a lucky moment, but it's been like this for a long time and it works with every side winning a well distributed number of times.
So Even is Village and Kefkuja winning far more than Sin and House provided no team ups? That means Judge can't protect Jecht/Yuna. The other day I saw Kuja hand a win to Sin because they wanted Sin to win. Why would anyone want a team other than their own to win unless it doesn't win a lot? And for the record, if anyone says "X is Kefka" everyone immediately assumes Cactaur. The only problem is, Zidane is there. He is able to confirm if the inspect is legitimate. So Cactaur messing up the village will not happen when Zidane is around to prove Locke.
I've got a suggestion for buffing up Sin and House maybe... More so Sin though due to the set up of the players currently In FFX, Jecht transforms into Braska's Final Aeon... What if when Yunalesca and Seymour (or just Yunalesca in smaller games) dies, he gets a power boost, similar to the French Canadian Conspirator idea. In FFXII, its a little different as Vayne is Vayne Novus/The Undying. So the proposal is a little different and might require switching Larsa and Vayne's actions and letting Vayne transform. But giving them a chance after their team is wiped might be helpful, especially if village has 2 BGs, Samurai, PL, etc
I'm not a fan of giving Vayne a transformation, and since Jecht is supposed to be one of the basic Mafia I'd rather have Yunalesca transforming, though her second form has no different name in-game. Seymour is definitely the most obvious to suffer a transformation, though he's already the strongest in his team. To sum up, I don't think those are the way to buff FF's Mafia factions - for House I would add another role (Dredd?), and Jecht could get an extra action if that do not ruin the early games where Jecht is meant to be basic.
The problem was, between 12 and 18 players, Sin and House stay the exact same, while Village gets stuff like Cloud and Zidane, Kefka reappears and even gets Kuja with him, all before Vayne and Seymor show up. Thats why I was suggesting a power-up because throwing another role in there won't make a difference unless you put it between 12 and 18 players, which pushes EVERYTHING back including Ultimecia and Sephiroth. But if new roles is the way it has to be: Yu Yevon for Sin and Gramis Solidor for House. Also, at 18 players Sin has 3 members and House has 2. Roles3 with a Moogle (or maybe even an elusive Chocobo) for player 18 on Roles2, then roles3 replaces to make sure Sin and House upgrade "equally"
actually pushing Seymour and Vayne earlier (and possibly Kuja later) isn't a bad idea. One of the village's PRs could also be dropped in the dance. As for Ultimecia, she should stay coming in at 25-ish as she is (23 iirc, but it could vary a little) edit - Gramis was good in the games, enough for Larsa :<
Cactuar has always been a confusing role for new players and people who didn't play mafia since that change (just saw that happening to an old player who just got back). I strongly suggest giving it an "info" attribute to replace the automatically generated /roles text.
Update: Fixed Cactuar's info to something along the lines of what RiceKirby suggested. To Narshen: Use /themeinfo FF and just copy the coding if you ever come back and plan to update the theme.
Noooooooooooo Not Cactuar... ;_; I really like that role since it allows us to use some scum. :( Why not just tell both Locke and Cactuar that they may be Cactuar ? Anyway, definitely Sin and House need a buff. Kuja's Posse and Heroes sides win more than them... Also, Judge and Yuna are shitty when their respective partners are all dead, why don't they share the kill with their respective side? If the answer is "because of their vote power", well that vote power is nothing really that big in a theme where village is outnumbering all other sides not to mention that Kuja laughs at that +2 vote power, hehe :D Talking about their vote power, that +2 vote causes ties several times... a vote of 1.75, 1.9, 2.1, or 2.5 is probably better?
(15:03:42) *** ::: ::: Log for FF-themed mafia game ::: ::: *** (15:03:42) Players: Endymion (Dark Knight Cecil), a vaporeon (Larsa Solidor), Finna Try (Cactuar), CornPaste (Moogle), DV_DC (Moogle), EpicSweepTime (Locke), xxx trainer xxx (Jecht), Sebastian Hummel (Auron), Fumcke (Judge Gabranth), Stocke (Yunalesca), Roy Mustang (Lightning), Fiefi3 (Tifa) Full role list from medium sized game, no Kefka. It's an error in coding. QC are handling it, thought I'd post anyways though. (15:18) Roild: Just an oversight (15:18) Roild: Kefka is 13th player in games of 12+ (15:18) Roild: But he is 4th in games of 5-11 (15:18) Roild: So at exactly 12, there is no kefka Edit: Fixed
http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=M8Hn57Lv is the new link. If any more fixes needed, they can use the RAW data or ask me. Either works.
It was intended at 12 players that Kefka would not appear. If you notice what else happens, the Garlands change to House and Sin. If you add Kefka, you mix up the balance and one team suffers a loss of a player that is potentially vital to their success.
Wasn't Tidus originally supposed to be able to distract Kefka without being killed? I thought Deria mentioned this, but it was done incorrectly.
I think there was something on Hobbes' Mafia theme guide that used that snippet, however, they must have changed it. As long as I can remember, Tidus died on distract.
Finally, Judge and Yuna share their partners' /kill... That's a good start! :3 EDIT: Judge and Yuna should be added to Kuja's WinIfDeadRoles!!
Many ties possibilities should be probably fixed: Dark Knight Cecil VS Any House or Sin role other than Yunalesca and Judge Zargabaath. Tifa/Tidus + Aerith VS Any House or Sin role other than Yunalesca and Judge Gabranth. Tifa/Tidus + Any village sided-role other than Aerith, Dark Knight Cecil, Lightning, Cloud VS Judge Gabranth. I think Aerith should have a vote or a voteshield of 0.5. Judge Gabranth's vote can be something like 1.75. DKC can be given a voteshield of +2 or be removed from the VCLR. ?