[Final] Ditto

Discussion in 'Gen 5 Ubers Analyses' started by NidoTheKing, Aug 23, 2012.

  1. NidoTheKing

    NidoTheKing Father of the Year 2014!

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    HI GUYS!

    ==General==
    Once upon a time, ever since the ancient times of Red/Blue, there existed a Pokemon who's uniqueness could not be matched, withholding the ability to turn into any Pokemon in the universe: Ditto. Unfortunately, it was pure crap competitively and aesthetically due to the fact that it can't use its special powers effectively. Four generations later, nothing has changed. It seems as if Gamefreak made something that had no use besides breeding purposes.

    That was until one day, a brilliant programmer had the fantastic idea to give Ditto a buff for the first time out of pity. Thus, the invention of Ditto's signature DW Ability was released: the all mighty Imposter, possibly the most evil ability in the game tying with Prankster and possibly Illusion. Why did this ability cause Ditto to become a top-tier threat? Well, Imposter allows you to Transform immediately on the switch, copying all of the opposing Pokemon's stats and stat changes bar HP. Slap on a Choice Scarf and you have an easy and maybe the best revenge killer in the game.

    This sounds perfect on paper, but the developers forgot about a huge problem with Imposter: Transform mechanics. Transform does not copy HP, meaning you still keep your horrible 48 HP that keeps you as frail as paper and susceptible to being killed if you do not kill first. Second, Transform only gives you 5 PP of every move, leaving you on a death timer that can be stalled out easily, and does not work against Substitute. Ditto also wants (but doesn't need) a lot of support in order to stay alive, and only fills its niche against offensive teams. Against teams that have little to no offense, Ditto is dead weight. Finally, the surprise factor of Ditto has been removed due to Team Preview. Okay, so maybe Ditto isn't the best revenge killer in the universe, but it can still be a team glue (literally), and can save your ass against offensive teams.


    =="That's no Mewtwo!"==:
    Ditto @ Choice Scarf
    Trait: Imposter
    EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Def
    IVs: 2 Spe
    Relaxed Nature (+Def, -Spe)
    - Transform
    -
    -
    -

    Set Comments
    Tired of Rayquaza, Extreme Killer Arceus, and other non-Scarfed sweepers ruining your team, or in a tight pinch in general? Introducing the one-of-a-kind revenge killer: Ditto! Ditto's plan is easy: switch in to something you can abuse or kill, and tear your opponent's team apart! Transform is here because...well...it doesn't have any other moves to use! But that's besides the point. The point is that if you switch in Ditto on a weaker, frail, and mighty Pokemon like Rayquaza, Mewtwo, Kyogre, or Darkrai, you pretty much have the game in your hands if your opponent doesn't anything to outspeed it. Choice Scarf is the one of the two keys to the engine. Even though Choice items may not look great on a Pokemon that can steal anything, but it allows you to bypass speed ties and priority wars, which Ditto would face otherwise. What else would you give it anyways? Leftovers?

    First things first with EVs: Max out HP. It is the only stat that needs any investment because it will change into the opponent's stats instantly. The EVs listed are just in case you happen to come across another Ditto and have to Struggle-war to death. Slower is better and you take less damage. It is preferred to make Ditto's Hidden Power type Ice because it is the most useful. If Ice doesn't float your boat for some reason, you could always change it to Hidden Power Fire just in case.

    ==Checks & Counters==
    By definition, a counter is a Pokemon that can easily switch in to any or most of an opposing Pokemon's moves and easily cause it to switch. If Ditto gets the stat boosts it needs, there is no virtual counter for it. However, Ditto is still an easy Pokemon to check. Wobbuffet is a living nightmare for Ditto because it can trap it and destroy it with Counter or Mirror Coat. Lugia and Giratina can take hits like a tree and can either phaze it away or hit it with a decent-powered move, which is most likely enough to kill it. Entry Hazards and status makes Ditto's life miserable because they give it a major burden among its usage. Because Ditto's main objective is to get a sweeper, Ditto is a horrible matchup against stall teams and Pokemon like Forretres and Ferrothorn, and Substitute blocks Imposter completely. But, the main way to deal with Ditto is to keep away a Pokemon just to deal with what it Transformed into. For example: if it Transformed into an Extreme Killer Arceus, keep a Giratina to cause the switch. Turned into a Groudon, take out a Ho-oh and make it cry. Ditto's biggest weakness is prediction. If you can't predict, you have a Ditto weakness.

    ==Other Options==
    Nope.[/HIDE]
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 25, 2013
  2. pokemonnerd

    pokemonnerd Only uso listens to pnerd. Devo too. Article Contributor Article Contributor

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    I think you need a more thorough analysis of your move selection. Ditto is extremely complicated in that regard.
     
  3. Darklight

    Darklight Nothing is True

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    Ditto is too complicated for you. Also, I don't think you should run sassy anyways since you would lose the speed tie against other scarf pokemons.
     
  4. NidoTheKing

    NidoTheKing Father of the Year 2014!

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    Stats don't matter for Ditto. It automatically becomes the speed stat of the opposing Pokemon once it switches out. I'll switch it to Timid to make everyone happy, though

    EDIT: Jolly. In case you need to use Struggle for some weird reason :p
     
  5. -Manaphy--

    -Manaphy-- Overconsumption

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    You make it sound like Ditto is a top-tier threat, but alas, it isn't. It's virtually useless against stall, Team preview means that opponents will know not to set up their DD Rayquaza, Ditto is impossible to team build with because you never know what it'll be, and a lot of the things you said Ditto could beat it can't, for example:

    252 +2 Atk Arceus (Ditto) ExtremeSpeed vs 0 HP/0 Def Arceus (Real): 55.38% - 65.62% (2 hits to KO)
    252 +2 Atk (Real) Life Orb Arceus ExtremeSpeed vs 0 HP/0 Def Arceus (Ditto): 301 - 355 HP (OHKO)

    Additionally, any Calm Mind Kyogre will beat Ditto one-on-one by CM'ing in it's face, along with any Calm Mind Arceus (whom you claimed Ditto could kill!)

    You have to list Ditto's disadvantages, including how it can't work against stall unlike other general revenge killers, how you essentially have to build with 5 Pokemon and only a Revenge Killer for offensive teams to compensate, how Ditto get's PP Stalled out easily, team preview etc etc.

    Two small notes. For the counters section, you could quite easily say that Ditto's counters are w/e it transforms into, but locked into a move with Limited PP. Also, give ditto max attack instead of Special Defense, you never know when you might be locked into a Struggle war with another Ditto!

    Anyway I won't be approving this until changes are made.
     
  6. Xdevo

    Xdevo Phrasing Super Moderator Tour Director Super Moderator Tour Director

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    You want to make Ditto as slow as possible in order to lose the speed war and beat other Ditto to struggle recoil (its 25% now, so it wants to hit last).
     
  7. NidoTheKing

    NidoTheKing Father of the Year 2014!

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    Okay. Maybe I over-exaggerated a bit. I'll take these all into consideration.

    I cannot believe I forgot some of these and I'll add them in. Should I change Hidden Power Ice to Fire, though? I still can't decide.
     
  8. -Manaphy--

    -Manaphy-- Overconsumption

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    Ice will usually be better, to be honest I can't really think of anything using Hidden Power in Ubers anyways.
     
  9. NidoTheKing

    NidoTheKing Father of the Year 2014!

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    Idk, Giratina-O against Steels? Whatever.

    Anyway, the edits are done. I hope it's better.
     
  10. Soma #ded

    Soma #ded Time for a SOMARAND!

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    When I first saw this thread, I was like "wow, this guy is a slacker and decided to write up the easiest skeleton."
    The amount of important and awesome content here baffled me.
    I'm no QC, but A++ skeleton here.
     
  11. -Manaphy--

    -Manaphy-- Overconsumption

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    Ooooooookkkiiiieeeessssss looks good
    QC Approved 1/3
     
  12. NidoTheKing

    NidoTheKing Father of the Year 2014!

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    Another dead forum o______o
     
  13. T-Dogg

    T-Dogg Member

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    My apologies, thought I'd posted here already.

    I have next to no experience with Ditto in Ubers, but if Manaphy approves then I assume it's good (gj DW Ubers player). Approved.
     
  14. NidoTheKing

    NidoTheKing Father of the Year 2014!

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    Two weeks gone, and STILL no one to approve :(

    I swear, my (failed) Shedinja upload took less than 4 days
     
  15. eric the espeon

    eric the espeon is an espeon.

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    NidoTheKing, you should upload things yourself if you don't get a reply in a reasonable time (say 4 days to a week).
     
  16. T-Dogg

    T-Dogg Member

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    You got two thumbs up, that's pretty good imo.
     
  17. NidoTheKing

    NidoTheKing Father of the Year 2014!

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    Okay. I thought that it was required 3 approvals in order for it to be put up.

    Thanks guys, I'll post it up as soon as I can! Thanks for the advice!!
     
  18. Spoovo The Pirate

    Spoovo The Pirate Meep! Article Contributor Article Contributor

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    Giratina O gets Earth Power, if memory serves, which hits the majority of them harder (only Ferro, Skarm and Zong avoiding heavy damage)

    One thing you could mention about Ditto vs Stall is the ability to use the stalling techniques against them, like Ferrothorn's Spikes or Blissey's Aromatherapy for examples. Not much of a use, but better than none?
     
  19. Darklight

    Darklight Nothing is True

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    G-O gets Aura Sphere which is the move it'll be using most of the time against steels.
     
  20. eric the espeon

    eric the espeon is an espeon.

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    uploaded, tagged as on wiki, edited in link. suggestions directly on wiki please, or here if you want discussion.