[BW2] BW Kyurem base states

Discussion in 'Gen 5 Ubers' started by Sasha The Legend !, Jun 22, 2012.

  1. Sasha The Legend !

    Sasha The Legend ! ORAS

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    those 2 titans will be something else (come to think of it ,it's only 1 titan )
    i think this pokemon will just be a good uber Pokemon
    those r B/W kyurem's base states :
    black Kyurem : (Zekrom fusion atker )
    hp 125
    atk 170 !!!
    def 100
    s.atk 120
    s.def 90
    spd 95
    as u can see people this pokemon is epic
    enough speed to outspeed any 680 based uber (except palkia )
    and some special dmg can almost ko any pokemon
    i think if imma use it ,it will be scarfed
    it can learn ice punch by tutoring wich is not that important i guess
    hoping for ice shard
    this pokemon will be a really dangerous counter against kyogre wich is one of the most most used pokes in ubers
    dragon ice and electric moves will be awesome especially with this new special move only for them
    now white Kyurem
    (reshiram fusion :s.atker )
    hp 125
    atk 120
    def 90
    s.atk 170
    s.def 100
    spd 95
    nice pokemon too
    in the sun this dude will BURN like HELL !!
    maybe will make a good teammate with groudon
    also as heard he can counter steel easily with fire moves

    i even thought of names for them :(kyurom and kyuram ) lol ?
    PS :is it true that the ladder will reset ?
     
  2. チャンピオンワタル

    チャンピオンワタル HYPER BEAM!

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    From what I heard, the ladders on the Pokémon Online server will indeed be reset at the end of this month.

    As for those Kyurem Formes, I am personally extremely looking forward to using both of them. I actually knew that they would be insanely good Pokémon from the very start since they were revealed, despite what many other people commonly believed. I can easily see BlackKyurem mainly focusing on using Fusion Bolt in conjunction with its Ice-type moves for a pair of awesome coverage moves, while WhiteKyurem does the same using Fusion Flare in combination with its Dragon-type moves, as Electric + Ice and Fire + Dragon are both excellent pairs of offensive moves.
     
  3. Sasha The Legend !

    Sasha The Legend ! ORAS

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    well as a dragon lover u should be the most excited person here
    btw nice sig
     
  4. チャンピオンワタル

    チャンピオンワタル HYPER BEAM!

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    【天龍神】 ワタル
    Thank you very much :)

    And indeed, you know that dragons are mythical Pokémon! They're hard to catch and raise, but their powers are superior! They're virtually indestructible! And BlackKyurem and WhiteKyurem both exemplify such a notion completely perfectly... which is why I, LANCE, the dragon master, will give them a roaring welcome into the Übers metagame!
     
  5. Emperor PPP

    Emperor PPP PKMNPurePower

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    Not the first one to think of those - I thought of them too
    GF are so unoriginal
     
  6. DSM01

    DSM01 Jammin' out

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    Choice sets might seem good at first glance, but I think the SR weakness will prevent those from ever taking off. If you have Rapid Spin or Magic Bounce support, though, these guys and the new CB Rayquaza are going to be a pain to face. Still, I don't see the new Kyurem formes having a huge impact in Ubers unless they have the ability to negate the charge up turn for Freeze Shock and Ice Burn. Without that, all they have is a high powered Dragon STAB since they lost their second Electric or Fire STAB. I really hope they get expansions for their barren movepool because I'd really like to see the Kyurem formes succeed in Ubers and not be another flop.
     
  7. Dr. Doom

    Dr. Doom Long time hater of stall

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    Good to see Kyurem getting some attention. I always felt that Game Freak neglected the 3rd member of that trio.

    How could a Pokemon with a 700 BST total not be Uber? Unless it has a rubbish ability (which it doesn't). Black and White 2 are going to be epic.
     
  8. Sasha The Legend !

    Sasha The Legend ! ORAS

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    ur right bro
    especially after watching those world tournament with like every privious trainer like dear Red and some champions
    and ALL GYM LEADERS FROM ALL GENS !! man that's epic
    idk how will i buy this game....there r no ds games in Syria
    btw tomorrow is the release of wich version JAP or USA and EU
    (lazy to check)
     
  9. twofivefive

    twofivefive don't call it a comeback

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    Can we make the OP more presentable? I find it impossible to read...
    Anyways, these sets need a huge amount of Spin support to work. We'll see a definitely rise of Terrakion and Scizor to beat these new threats, as they can both revenge and in the case of Scizor, switch in at least twice once on their powerful Dragon or Ice type attacks.
    If anyone needs a damage calculator for them, Kalashnikov updated his damage calc with the new Kyurem formes.
     
    Last edited: Jun 22, 2012
  10. -Manaphy--

    -Manaphy-- Overconsumption

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    Saha you could at least try to make the op presentable but then again I'm not expecting much from you.

    Ok let's be serious now.

    White Kyurem is a worse Palkia. It's got 20 more Special attack by everything else is worse.

    Black Kyurem will end up as a physical Choice Scarf user, probably replacing Zekrom, albeit it with a Stealth Rock weakness and no bolt strike. Physical Ice Attacks are really cool though, if I gets them I can see a wallbreaking set or a cb set being awesome.

    Mark my words; they'll end up with some high usage in the coming weeks thanks to people testing them but they really aren't going to destroy the meta or anything.
     
  11. puregenius

    puregenius :<

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    I'm really looking forward to black kyurem

    Sub claw zekrom was always an amazing set, but it could never get past groudon

    Sub claw black kyurem will just be scary

    Only problem is now it won't be able to set up on gyro ball ferro
     
  12. -Manaphy--

    -Manaphy-- Overconsumption

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    I guess I should remind everybody that Kyurem doesn't get Superpower or Ice Punch. Black Kyurem has no physical Ice STAB.
     
  13. チャンピオンワタル

    チャンピオンワタル HYPER BEAM!

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    【天龍神】 ワタル
    With its Turboblaze-enhanced Same Type Attack Bonus Ice Beam off its massive 170 base Special Attack, WhiteKyurem can effortlessly tear its way through Lugia, a Pokémon that completely walls Palkia especially in the Sun.

    By the way, this post lists all the moves the two Kyurem Formes can learn by level-up. BlackKyurem being unable to learn Ice Punch, Icicle Crash and Superpower is a major letdown though.
     
  14. Dr. Doom

    Dr. Doom Long time hater of stall

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    I think White Kyurem got the better deal here. A Draco Meteor coming off that special attack stat is going to be phenomenal. I thought of a moveset for White Kyurem

    Choice Specs
    Nature: Modest (+SAtk -Atk)
    Item: Choice Specs
    EVs: 4 HP, 252 SAtk, 252 Spd
    Draco Meteor
    Ice Beam
    Fusion Flare
    Earth Power

    I don't really need to explain about the power. Thanks to Turboblaze, it gets perfect neutral coverage. Draco Meteor creams anything that doesn't resist it - the Steel types mad enough to switch in will be roasted by Fusion Flare. Ice Beam is a secondary STAB move - 1HKOs Lugia, Groudon, Dragonite, Salamence, Rayquaza and Zekrom. Earth Power is mostly filler - but thanks to Turboblaze it hits Levitating Pokemon.
     
  15. Vincent R.

    Vincent R. New Member

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    The only "problem" (not really a problem at all) i see about those new forms is no Eletric/Fire STAB, since we are dealing with a Dragon/Ice pokemon (unless it must held an item like Griseous Orb that allow it to be in this new form and at the same time gives it a 1.5x boost on Eletric/Fire damage, depending what form we are puting into our team). But like i said, that is not really a problem because 170 base atk/sp atk is SO powerful that no STABs are really needed (maybe in some situations they ARE needed, like White Kyurem against Chansey, it would like to have both Fire STAB and Sun working together with Blue Flare to destroy the Pink Blob).

    Well, now i will compare the new forms with pokemons we already know:

    With 95 Base Speed and no Priority Move and no Speed Boost Move (except for Flame Charge i guess), i don't see any form being a Sweeper, but i can see they acting as Wallbreakers like Mixed Rayquaza, but they have advantagdes over the Green Serpent:

    MUCH more bulky (almost like Arceus and Giratina-O), MUCH more destruction power (almost Deoxys-A), and Ice STAB that allow it to OHKO Specially Defensive Groudon with Ice Beam in one hit, a feat that not even both Deoxys-A and Rayquaza can claim (as far as i know). Other thing is that Lugia can't safely switch against it, but can against Mixed Rayquaza, what means that those new forms are MUCH better in wallbreaking than Mixed Rayquaza, almost no wall can safely switch in against those.
     
  16. チャンピオンワタル

    チャンピオンワタル HYPER BEAM!

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    From my experience using WhiteKyurem on Pokémon Showdown today, I'd say that this set makes an excellent lead, since it completely annihilates Dialga, Groudon, Kyogre and Forretress, which are all extremely common leads.
     
  17. Vincent R.

    Vincent R. New Member

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    Lol can we play with the new forms in a competitive simulator already?

    *Go to the Pokemon Showdown*
     
  18. -Manaphy--

    -Manaphy-- Overconsumption

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    Lol, Lugia gets 2HKO'd by Palkia with Thunder, not to mention Lugia can do nothing back. Multiscale isn't even released and it's still broken by Stealth Rock.

    Seriously, Palkia has rain-boosted STAB Water type attacks combined with It'd Dragon STAB and excellent coverage with Thunder, Fire Blast, and Outrage. White Kyurem has 20 more Special attack, a Stealth Rock weakness, redundant type coverage, and 5 less Speed (which is actually important because Palkia can outspeed Rayquaza and Kyurem instead of tying.) Not to mention It can't boast rain- boosted stab, because Palkia's typing is better both offensively and defensively.

    I'm not gonna talk about Black Kyurem because it's best Ice attack is Freeze Shock :x
     
  19. Vincent R.

    Vincent R. New Member

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    Well, Palkia is probably better in its niches than the new Kyurem's forms, but i don't think the new forms should be compared with Palkia, but with Rayquaza in terms of wallbreaking, look their advantadges over each other (i won't talk about all they can do since they're similar in somethings, i will talk just about the differences):

    Rayquaza
    -Priority move
    -Spikes and Toxic Spikes Immunity
    -Powerful STAB Dragons attacks (both physically and specially) and Coverage through Fire and Fighting or Ground attacks

    Kyurem
    -Bulkier
    -STABed Ice attacks to take down Groudon and Lugia easier than MixQuaza
    -VERY powerful STAB Dragon attacks, and Coverage through Eletric or Fire

    Let's imagine these walls (some are physical, some special, some are both):

    Groudon, Lugia, Giratina, Blissey/Chansey, Skarmory, Ho-Oh, Tentacruel, Ferrothorn and Forretress

    Rayquaza with Draco Meteor/ExtremeSpeed/Outrage/Overheat can hit all of them for super effective damage, except for Groudon and Lugia that could do something while surviving. Rayquaza can't SE damage Chansey, Ho-Oh and Tentacruel either, but Outrage kills those anyway, the problem is that it gets locked into Outrage and can be trapped by Ferrothorn, so Brick Break is an option over Outrage to still kill Chansey, but in this case it loses the power of Outrage to quickly kill Ho-Oh and Tentacruel, so let's says that Rayquaza puts V-Create over both Outrage and Overheat, what means it still has the Fire coverage and now can kill Chansey like it had Outrage, it opens door for one last slot that can be fullfiled by Earthquake to kill Tentacruel quickly without get locked, or Outrage to kill quickly both Ho-Oh and Tentacruel while getting yourself locked.

    When i say "to quickly kill someone" i mean a way you can remove a threat from the opponent's team without receive to much damage (for example, a MixQuaza without Outrage would not kill Ho-Oh with Draco Meteor, ExtremeSpeed, or other attacks, and would be seriously damaged by Brave Bird).

    Well, even if you aren't affraid of being locked into Outrage, then you get Draco Meteor/ExtremeSpeed/Outrage/V-Create, but you have not Brick Break or Earthquake to quickly kill Heatran and Dialga.

    And after all of these you still won't kill Groudon and Lugia in one hit.

    Now let's see Kyurem:

    The same walls i put against Rayquaza are destroyed by the same coverage, but now i can ignore Sturdy from Forretress and Skarmory killing them in one hit with Fusion Flare or Fusion Bolt (depending what Kyurem i'm using), ignore Flash Fire from Heatran seriously damaging it with Sun-Boosted Fusion Flare, or even trying Focus Blast against both Heatran and Dialga. Now i have a much easier time against Groudon and Lugia than MixQuaza unleashing my STABed Ice attacks, or killing Ho-Oh and Tentacruel with Fusion Bolt to don't get locked into Outrage.

    I just see only two real problems when comparing Mixed Movesets from the new Kyurem's forms with MixQuaza:

    1-The absence of a powerful physical attack that don't get you locked (Outrage) or that doesn't have to charge (Freeze Shock), meaning that Kyurems will have a harder time to kill Chansey than Brick Break/V-Create Quaza;
    2-You will have to choose between Fire and Electric. Chansey, Ho-Oh and Tentacruel can hold against the Fire one unless it Outrages them, but saying again, getting locked is a problem bigger than SR weakness. Chansey, Ferrothorn and Forretress can stand against the Electric one, unless it Outrages or Freeze Shocks Chansey and has HP Fire.

    Personally i would go Focus Blast/Freeze Shock/Fusion Bolt/HP Fire with Black Kyurem, because Freeze Shock cause massive damage against Groudon and Lugia, and the only two Dragons that don't get SE damage from it are Palkia and Dialga. Palkia get killed by one hit anyway (it's not like someone would switch a Palkia into this attack, or i would switch Kyurem against Palkia, but i'm just exploring its potencial), and Dialga (and Heatran, and Tyranitar) get killed by Focus Blast. HP Fire for Ferro and Forry, Fusion Bolt for Skarmory, Tentacruel and Ho-Oh (i could kill the phoenix with Freeze Shock, but i don't want to charge). Freeze Shock kills Chansey easily too if she don't have Protect.

    And with White Kyurem i would go Draco Meteor/Fusion Flare/Ice Beam/Outrage.

    Actually i think Black Kyurem is BETTER than the White one, despite all the people saying the other way, because HP Electric is a bad idea, but HP Fire isn't, so the Black can have Fusion Bolt and HP Fire, but the White can't have Fusion Flare and HP Electric (unless you don't know what you're doing, because HP Electric is not worth it), giving the Black a better coverage. The OTHER reason i think that is because the Uber Metagame is Specially oriented, so generally peoples expend more EVs in Special Defense for theirs walls, resisting better against the White one, but being more vulnerable to the Black one.
     
  20. チャンピオンワタル

    チャンピオンワタル HYPER BEAM!

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    Ah, pardon me. I forgot and actually was assuming that Lugia had Multiscale in that post, hence why I mentioned WhiteKyurem's Turboblaze.

    But even in Wifi Ubers, I still maintain that WhiteKyurem is a much more dangerous offensive threat than Palkia. Even without Multiscale, Lugia easily walls Palkia in the Sun (and can also paralyze it), something it cannot do to WhiteKyurem. Also, it is not uncommon to find a situation in battle in which one's Palkia counter/check has been weakened or taken out, leaving one's best next option for dealing with Palkia being to paralyze it with Groudon while getting heavily damaged by (but at least surviving) Spacial Rend, Surf, Hydro Pump or Fire Blast, and then leaving Palkia to be easily defeated by another Pokémon. Substitute WhiteKyurem in Palkia's place, and the Groudon trainer doesn't even get the luxury of doing that, as the Boundary Pokémon flat-out destroys Groudon with Ice Beam. Also, Ferrothorn easily takes Palkia's Water and Dragon-type attacks as well as Thunder, fearing only Fire Blast or the rare Aura Sphere or Focus Punch. Combined with Palkia's tendency to hold Choice Scarf, Ferrothorn is a reasonably safe switch-in to Palkia, especially in the rain, as not only it can survive even a Fire Blast on the off-chance that Palkia's trainer predicts correctly, but Choice Scarf Palkia are also generally reluctant to use Fire Blast in the rain for obvious reasons. However, Ferrothorn is generally not as safe a switch-in to WhiteKyurem, as Ice Beam, one of that Pokémon's main attacks, heavily damages it, taking some variants of Ferrothorn out in two hits even without a Life Orb or Choice Specs, and this is not even mentioning Fusion Flare. Combining all of this with the fact that WhiteKyurem has access to Roost, hits harder than Palkia, can bypass Sturdy with Turboblaze, and is also bulky enough to survive a +2 ExtremeSpeed from Silk Scarf Arceus unlike Palkia, and I really don't see how WhiteKyurem can be considered "a worse Palkia". Palkia may be a more useful Pokémon overall (which I think it probably is largely due to its extremely desirable 4x Water resistance), but it is hardly better in every team and situation.
     
    Last edited: Jun 25, 2012
  21. puregenius

    puregenius :<

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    Kyurem-Black @ Leftovers
    Trait: Teravolt
    EVs: 252 Spd / 252 Atk / 4 Def
    Naive Nature
    - Substitute
    - Blizzard
    - Outrage
    - Hone Claws

    Heres the set ive been tinkering with. Sub and HC are the crux of this set, similarly to zekrom's sub claw set. The main difference is that Blizzard can 2hko groudon. You could always shift around a couple of evs to make it an ohko, but thats ur call.
     
  22. jpkc

    jpkc New Member

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    Guys, how do you get black kyurem?
     
  23. Dr. Doom

    Dr. Doom Long time hater of stall

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    So today I downloaded the B/W 2 package for Pokemon online, and decided to try out White Kyurem. -Manaphy--, you're wrong. It is not, as you put it, "a worse Palkia". It's one of the most powerful Pokemon in the tier. Its special attack stat is second only to Deoxys-A, it has good bulk and a nice set of resistances. I ran the Choice Specs set I listed above, with only 1 change: Earth Power was replaced with Focus Blast.

    It was INCREDIBLE. Focus Blast cleanly 2HKOs Blissey after Stealth Rock. Draco Meteor 1HKOs anything that doesn't resist it, or named Chansey or Blissey. Ice Beam makes short work of anything weak to it. Fusion Flare spells doom for the bulky steel types - if it's not raining, it cleanly 1HKOs Ferrothorn, Foretress, Skarmory and Jirachi.

    I haven't tried Black Kyurem yet, although I'm not expecting too much. It has great stats, but it doesn't have the moves to use them. Even so, they are both way too powerful for OU.
     
  24. Dr. Doom

    Dr. Doom Long time hater of stall

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    You have to download the B/W2 version of PO. Go to the Homepage, there's a link there.
     
  25. jpkc

    jpkc New Member

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    i did download it, so how do I get him?
     
  26. Sov

    Sov Bravely Default

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    You bring up a normal Kyurem in the Team Builder, click "Advanced" below it's sprite, and "Side Window". Click "Alternate Forms", then click the box "Kyurem-B".
     
  27. -Manaphy--

    -Manaphy-- Overconsumption

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    Lol, okay let's break this down:
    -Ability to 2HKO Blissey is done by Specs Palkia.
    -Ice Beam kills anything weak to it. Lol, you could say that about anything. And you're hitting the same things wih Ice Beam as Draco Meteor, it's not like Groudon or Giratina is going to have to be hit by Ice Beam rather than Draco Meteor.
    -Draco Meteor kills everything. Same deal here with Specs Palkia.
    -Palkia can OHKO or 2HKO all of the Steels listed here with Hydro Pump or Fire Blast, provided it is Raining OR Shining.
    Additionally, with Palkia you get A much better typing that doesn't leave it weak to Stealth Rock, Rain boosted secondary stab, Dragon and Water are resisted by only Ferrothorn in Ubers who always gets 2HKO'd or OHKO'd by Fire Blast, oh and it's typing lets it be your Kyogre counter. Thunder is also icing on the cake as well as 100 base Speed.
     
  28. チャンピオンワタル

    チャンピオンワタル HYPER BEAM!

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    All Übers have their strengths and weaknesses relative to each other. If Kyurem-W was completely better than Palkia in every single team or situation, or vice-versa, then no one would be using Palkia anymore, or vice-versa.

    Anyway, a question that ought to be raised right now is this: What exactly is "Overdrive" anyway? I see two different sprites for both of the new Kyurem Formes:

    [​IMG][​IMG]
    [​IMG][​IMG]

    In what situations are the new Kyurem Formes in Overdrive mode, and in what situations are they not? How exactly is Overdrive activated and deactivated? What in-battle difference is there between a Kyurem-B or Kyurem-W that is in Overdrive mode, and one that is not?

    I find it strange that this is not clear despite the fact that these Formes are already usable on Pokémon Online.
     
  29. -Manaphy--

    -Manaphy-- Overconsumption

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    lol Overdrive was never a thing. It's just when they're tails start glowing and attach to their back. The same was described for Zekrom and Reshiram.
     
  30. チャンピオンワタル

    チャンピオンワタル HYPER BEAM!

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    Then what is the point of the sprites of Kyurem-B and Kyurem-W in which they are not glowing?
     
  31. -Manaphy--

    -Manaphy-- Overconsumption

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    Aesthetics, there isn't a stat difference or anything.
     
  32. チャンピオンワタル

    チャンピオンワタル HYPER BEAM!

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    I see. Then do you know when and where the sprites in which the Kyurem Formes are not glowing can be seen in the games?
     
  33. Vincent R.

    Vincent R. New Member

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    Well, i have not tested properly White Kyurem yet, but i already tested the wallbreaker set for Black Kyurem that i was talking about in my last post, and now i will talk about what were my expectations, and what i concluded until now:

    Expectations:
    -Freeze Shock is a powerful physical ice attack, that could even inflict great pain in physical walls like Giratina and Groudon because they're weak to it, so Freeze Shock should be used against Chansey, Giratina, Groudon, Dragons in general (even Palkia that is not weak would be destroyed), Lugia, etc;
    -Fusion Bolt to kill walls that resist Ice, or that are powerful physical neutral walls, or just to not get locked in Freeze Shock's charge. What means Skarmory, Kyogre, Tentacruel, Ho-Oh, and such;
    -Focus Blast against Heatran, Dialga, Tyranitar, and so on;
    -HP Fire to kill Ferrothotn and Forretress;

    Conclusions:
    -Freeze Shock is really a waste of time because of its charge turn, but Kyurem doesn't get any other powerful Ice Physical attack, so i put Ice Beam over Freeze Shock, because it still kills the same walls that Freeze Shock kills, and even easier (after all Groudon is a physical wall, so it's normal to it suffer much more from Ice Beam than Freeze Shock, or at least i think so), the problem then becomes Chansey walling Ice Beam, Focus Blast, HP Fire, and a non-STABed Fusion Bolt, so Outrages needs to go over one of the other 3 slots (Fusion Bolt, Focus Blast or HP Fire), sacrificing then coverage/super effective moves against almost all metagame so you can kill Chansey with a powerful physical neutral attack. Probably Fusion Bolt should be the move to be replaced since Outrage kills Kyogre, Ho-Oh and Tentacruel anyway, and Ice Beam kills Skarmory. I think it's bad to replace Focus Blast an HP Fire because then you are walled by Heatran and Ferrothorn.

    Like i said, i'm analysing only the wallbreaker one, since i think this is going to be the mainly niche of Black Kyurem, but later i will take my conclusions about scarf and the others sets.
     
    Last edited: Jun 26, 2012
  34. Dr. Doom

    Dr. Doom Long time hater of stall

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    Have you actually used Kyurem-W -Manaphy--? It's surprising how many people bash a Pokemon they've never used.
    Positives for Palkia
    + Better speed
    + Better defensive typing
    + Wider Movepool

    Positives for Kyurem-W
    + Better Special Attack
    + Better bulk
    + Better offensive typing
    + Better ability

    If it's sunny, Palkia can't take on Lugia since Thunder only has 50% accuracy in sun. Whereas Kyurem-W can take Lugia on whatever the weather. And in DW Uber, it can 1HKO Multiscale Lugia at full HP, something Palkia could only dream of. Not counting Arceus formes, how many Ubers Pokemon are hit for Super Effective damage by Water moves? Terrakion, Heatran, Ho-Oh, Blaziken, Gliscor and Groudon. And that's if it's not sunny, and most of those Pokemon are often used on sun teams. How many Ubers Pokemon are hit for Super Effective damage by Ice moves? Groudon, Zekrom, Lugia, Rayquaza (X4), Shaymin-S (X4), Giratina, Thundurus, Dragonite (X4), Gliscor (X4), Garchomp (X4). Worse Palkia? Lol, you don't have a clue.

    Another moveset I thought of for Kyurem-W
    Nature: Timid (+Spd -Atk)
    Item: Life Orb
    EVs: 4 HP, 252 SAtk, 252 Spd
    Hail
    Blizzard
    Dragon Pulse/Draco Meteor
    Fusion Flare/Earth Power

    Its good bulk and reasonable speed mean it can set up Hail itself. That breaks the Focus Sashes, spoils the day for sun and rain teams, and gives it a 100% accurate Blizzard. STAB Blizzard coming off a special attack stat higher than Mewtwo wrecks most of the tier. Dragon Pulse is more reliable, but Draco Meteor hits a lot harder. Any steel type foolish enough to switch in is roasted by Fusion Flare. Earth Power can go on instead, as that destroys Heatran and Dialga.
     
  35. Mutalisk

    Mutalisk Sand In ubers... Meh

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    for Black Kyurem try out power herb it takes away that charge up time on freezeshock and with attack as beastly as it is you dont need a band or LO
     
  36. -Manaphy--

    -Manaphy-- Overconsumption

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    Dragon/Water is an absolutely better offensive type combination than Ice/Dragon, it's far less redundant and gets boosted by weather. Let's break down what gets hit by Ice Beam:
    -Groudon (Dragon attacks kill this, Water attacks kill this)
    -Zekrom (Dragon attacks kill this)
    -Rayquaza (Dragon attacks kill this)
    -Shaymin-S (Dragon attacks kill this)
    -Garchomp (Dragon Attacks kill this)
    -Lugia (Thunder kills this, while appearently the field is Always Sunny and without Stealth Rocks. Hmm.)
    -Dragonite (Dragon attacks kill this, also why the hell did you put this mon up)
    -Thunderus (Dragon attacks kill this, Water attacks kill this)
    -Giratina (Dragon attacks kill this)
    -Gliscor (any special attack kill this)

    Water/Dragon gets STAB by Palkia, gets boosted by the Rain (your 20 more SAtk point gets worse), whilst being boosted by Rain is resisted by one mon in Ubers who dies to Fire Blast.
     
  37. Dr. Doom

    Dr. Doom Long time hater of stall

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    You're argument is based on pure theory, nothing more. Mine is based on experience. Anyway, how many people run Specs Palkia? Most of the Palkias I've come across are either Life Orb or Scarf.

    It needs a bit of support to get its job done, but provide that support and it is amazing. All you need is a Rapid Spinner (or Magic Bounce), and something to sort out Deoxys-A and the pink blobs and you're golden. I was in a Wifi Ubers tourney on the server yesterday, and my Specs Kyurem-W KOed most of the other finalist's bench (4 out of his 6). I've never had that happen with a Palkia. Ever.
    Palkia's a great Pokemon - it is a better sweeper and revenge killer than Kyurem-W. But Kyurem-W is a better wallbreaker, and a better offensive lead. Don't let people tell you leads don't exist anymore - they do. I'm not claiming Kyurem-W's a better Pokemon - I'm claiming it isn't worse than Palkia. In some ways it's better, in some ways it's worse.

    I'm tired of Theorymon. Download the B/W2 upgrade, put a Kyurem-W on your team and try laddering. I look forward to an INFORMED discussion.
     
  38. -Manaphy--

    -Manaphy-- Overconsumption

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    Every Kyurem-W I have seen (and yes I have been laddering in Ubers) has been absolute shit, I kid you not. Same for Kyurem-B, but that's another dicussion. I have used Kyurem-W Specs before, it was cool to lead with but I am left thoroughly unimpressed by it. I'm not seeing any advantage to using it besides OMFG IT HAS 170 SATK!!!!!! Let's be honest here- No one would be using it if it hadn't just come out. Additionally, most people just drool over 170 Satk without really thinking about the Pokemon itself. (Just what I am seeing in this thread.) Many of my ubering friends agree with me (and all of them have gotten 1600 before, just for credibility.)
    Seems you've ran out of arguments, but anyway I addressed this above.
     
  39. チャンピオンワタル

    チャンピオンワタル HYPER BEAM!

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    PO Trainer Name:
    【天龍神】 ワタル
    I have been #1 on the old ladder with 1673 points, and also simultaneously had four other names in the top 10 on that ladder (two of which also had 1600+ points, including one name at #2 as well). With my Kyurem-W lead team, I got four names in the top 4 on the current ladder not long ago, and in the process also defeated Sheetanshu (who was #1 on the old ladder with about 1720 points, and also had four other names in the top 10 of that ladder), who was using Donkey's #1 Rain Stall of all teams in that battle. As you can see, my Kyurem-W demolished his Dialga on the first turn before he could react, and would have also done the same to both his Lugia and his Arceus-Ghost had my opponent not forfeited early. I just ran a damage calculation, and had a Choice Specs Palkia been in Kyurem-W's place, its Draco Meteor would not have KO'd my opponent's Dialga on the first turn barring a critical hit, according to the Dialga EVs listed by Donkey. And neither would a Choice Specs Palkia have been any good in that situation against my opponent's Lugia either, considering it had Multiscale (which is now released by the way, so this pertains to Wifi Ubers as well), and the field was sunny.
     
  40. -Manaphy--

    -Manaphy-- Overconsumption

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    1. That was in DW Ubers, where leads actually exist. Don't ask me why He didn't switch to Ferro like any sane person would. (I'm also lolling at the fact he took donkey's team, and based on some of the plays he made I'm really questioning him) I have already stated that he was fine as a lead.
    2.
    Don't put the Multiscale stuff on me since his Lugia got poisoned early on in the game.
    3. Your team is also a bad example since you already had a Palkia in it.
    4. I'm also mainly talking about Wi-Fi Ubers, and considering that Wifi has Dream World, leads don't exist.

    I'm am still left thoroughly unimpressed, and the only real advantage Kyurem-W seems to have is 20 more Special Attack, while Palkia has a host more advantages.