YESS BEBBZ!! A well deserved victory, and much credit to you for your great triumph!! (YESSSSSS WE WIN!) The reason why I didn't have that much communication with BebbZ to start with was because LordKX had already informed me about everything, but I think me and KX were talking each night via PMs. :p
As far as I know, the Mafia were only connected around Night 5 ~ Day 5, and that was mostly borne out of desperation. By that time the Mafia were crossfiring all over the place, the two Titan fakeclaimers (lol) had been discovered, and at the time Village still had a pretty good shot. There was the 3 way alliance with BebbZ, Zzyzx Road, and I at first, but after Zzyzx was lynched, the final Mafia alliance with Vepix/Darkkis/Rehx/BebbZ/I was established. BebbZ DEFINITELY knew that backstabbing the Orion alliance was necessary, but doing so during the night was foolish since Orion would know (since BebbZ was the only other killer), and Orion had a greater priority kill. Therefore, BebbZ had to subtly push for Orion members' lynches to avoid seeming like he was backstabbing Orion - I think BebbZ balancing trust with Steel while not seeming like he was turning on Orion was BebbZ's greatest accomplishment IMO. :)
Congratulations, Bebbz! Even though I only indirectly worked with you (through both Master and Steel, I guess), it's still great to see you win! As Master said above me, betraying the Orion was unavoidable, if you or Master were to win. You and Master (and perhaps Zzyzx road?) strategized much more than the Orion, and even the Solar System (debatable), and for that, you deserve this victory! EDIT: Do I win a prize for being in the top 6 (top 5 if you're counting who died before me)?
I just wish I didn't go out so early. By the sounds of things, this game was played to a far higher level of skill than it seems on the surface.
Poignant, your survival surely would have changed the game drastically. Something that seemed key in this game was the scarcity of information-gathering roles, which really required the Village to connect to succeed. It seemed that Village had some nerfed roles - for instance, Zeromare and Poignant could only use their actions once every two nights, and MeowMix's signaling ability turned to only be able to connect with Earth (after asking PokeWorldBW). The only other two Inspecting roles in the game belonged to two lone wolves, so it was critical for the Village to consolidate early lest the Mafia gather enough information to connect. In this game, though, the latter scenario just happened to play out. :x
Yeah. Even with a nerfed Inspect, the fact I had already cleaned a Village role seemed to be playing in my favour, and I only really needed to compile other claims in order to try weed out fakeclaimers before I had plausible lynch targets. It just sucks for me that I was removed so early, as I said, this game seems to have been played better than it appears on the surface, and I'd like to have been involved.
I am so glad you were removed Poignant. I would never have risked fakeclaiming while there was an inspector about. However; at that point I had already claimed to be village allied to your contact, Cake, so hopefully things would still have gone well.
BebbZ, when did you fakeclaim? Because personally I would still have fakeclaimed, but only due to my role. ;) EDIT: You edited your post answering my question. :x
I'm just going to hope I can be a lot more involved in the next game. I'm starting to realise that one of the key events which made this such a well played game by the Mafia was actually my removal, so I'm slightly less bitter about that now.
I fakeclaimed to Cake during d1. I then realised that I should also Fakeclaim to Steel during about d2 or so. Luckily Cake never asked for my role PM d1, as I had none prepared. Funny how literally I changed a few words from Alshain to make Ceres.
See, the first thing I always do upon a claim is request a PM. If they're unwilling to give it over, I instantly suspect them. So, had I lived, you'd have probably been thrown under suspicion after Cake told me you had claimed with no PM.
Not at all! Frankly, the Mafia played well to get rid of me, and by the sounds of things, Bebbz had a role PM ready to fool Steel with, so there was quite a short period for you to actually realise Bebbz could be lying. Of course, I was to preoccupied with trying to avoid getting randed to actually ask you about any possible claims, so I'm at as much blame as you.
If you say so...x3 It's weird, I can (sometimes) fakeclaim quite well - although I've never had a bad role in a Forum Mafia yet, so this could just be server Mafia - but I'm not good at detecting them. x3
I was used D: Anyway, I'm glad that I seemed to make the game rather interesting by randing out the insp. Also, my role could only connect to Earth, who was out N2? I assumed upon reading it that it would at least connect me to the other Moons; finding one role out of 30something players is rather tough.
Ah, well that makes sense then. The role PM just made me seem much more important than I actually was. Also I'm never trusting any of you again, js.
I honestly think the Village had a hard time winning this, especially given the fact their information gathering roles went out so quickly and seemed nerfed. This game seemed to hinge entirely on whether the Mafia would co-operate well enough, and BebbZ definitely played the best.
Village certainly had a chance though. If a PR had stepped up D1 or so and consolidated the PRs early (and if I wasn't a complete simpleton) village probably could have taken the game. The presence of a BG would mean that mafia probably wouldn't aim for the revealed PR, even if the BG was nerfed since they probably wouldn't know that. Regardless, BebbZ and the rest of the mafia did an excellent job of bamboozling the village even after everyone was fairly well connected and played very well. Also, I'm just kinda rereading this and I'm wondering what the lynch on Water was about from Steel. Was Steel doing that to get Water to use his ability for whatever reason, or did he legit think Water was bad? Either way, it seems kinda silly as Water's ability could have been used a bit later to get a more important vote.
No, I didn't think Water was bad. I told him what would be happening. I knew Rehx, Vepix, and Darkkis were all a Mafia - through BebbZ, I believe! - and from what I remember, Darkkis was a huge threat.
^ I was as huge threat as Vepix; I could've stopped the voting at night and killed (after Vepix dies).
I insisted we used that ploy, and in that instance I wasn't being entirely selfish and cunning. If Darkkis remained in one more night I think Vepix's team would have been too powerful to beat. Also there were rumours he was bad, I don't think Steel (Or me) actually believed them, but it made for a nice ploy for Steel to ally with Vepix.
By the sounds of things, BebbZ orchestrated everything in this game pretty damn well after the lucky break of my lynch. Just wish I had took a more definitive role as village leader to help prevent my lynch, in hindsight I probably should've been more openly communicative with Cake.
The primary reason for lynching Darkkis the "long way" through Water was to avoid suspicion on Vepix's part - because if Vepix was alerted to the fact that Darkkis was getting lynched, then Vepix could still supernova and keep Darkkis and his stop-lynch ability around for another crucial turn. I feel bad because I basically told Orion not for Darkkis to use his ability the night we went from 16 to 14 people, due to a miscommunication about Water's role PM.
I honestly doubt village would be able to win even with a PR leading us. Not only we had lots of nerfed PRs (including the 2 main PRs), but most of our PRs had a counter (2 millers, a role to confuse stalkers, vote manipulators, redirectors, etc.). Also, we only had weak vigilantes when our main weapon (votes) could easily be manipulated by the mafia. And even if the PRs connected and worked together, there was a curser that would hold back any PR willing to lead the village. So yeah, I think village was really weak.
This. I think the village was a little too nerfed in this game - even though the Mafia had to play very well in order to achieve their victory, the way I see it is this only occured because they realised each individual Mafia was a threat in it's own right.
Ironically, Chinchou nerfed the village because he was worried about balance... Then he improved some roles while keeping the village unchanged...
Topic bump =x Anyway, Chinchou has written the postgame, which is in the second post of this thread. Check it out if you have time.