The Age of Salamence Picture this: You are in a battle with that guy that refuses to get a single pokemon killed and than proceeds to insult you or say something along the lines of “lol you suck”. We have all had it happen before. Now imagine if there was a pokemon that was designed to turn the tables against those kind of people. Who is that pokemon you might ask… SALAMENCE. The very first question that will probably arise from many of you is “Why Salamence? Why use Salamence when you could easily use Rayquaza or Palkia?”. Well the one thing that really sets Salamence apart from the other aforementioned pokemon is its newly introduced DW ability: Moxie. But that is only the beginning of Salamence’s amazing feats. There are many other things that puts Salamence ahead of the competition. 1. It’s speed- Salamence has incredible speed, tying with the likes of Palkia, so you can assure it is an incredible revenge killer. 2. It’s immunity to spikes and toxic spikes- Immunity to spikes and toxic spikes is an incredibly valuable trait, considering so much of the uber metagame is hurt by both kinds of spikes. 3. It’s raw physical power- The last thing that Salamence has over the competition is it’s incredible attack. It has higher attack than Palkia and since most of the uber metagame is designed to be specially defensive, it hits a lot of pokemon where it hurts. These three characteristics along with Moxie is what makes Salamence viable in ubers. It is faster than Rayquaza, and hits harder on the physical spectrum than Palkia. In case anyone isn’t aware of the set that I am talking about it, here it is. Salamence Choice Scarf Moxie Naïve 252 Atk/252 Speed/4 SpA 1. Dragon Claw 2. Outrage 3. Earthquake 4. Fire Blast Before I continue on further, I want to briefly introduce myself. I’ve peaked #2 in both DW and Wifi Ubers. I managed to get my wifi rating from using Salamence on my team as well, so I can assure you it is viable. I’m no slouch in OU either. I’ve climbed to the top ten range in both tiers several times in the past. So the bottom line is I have a little credibility, and you can trust that this analysis was thought out. Understanding Salamence 1. Salamence is a revenge killer first, and a sweeper second- Sometimes there are times when you need to kill something, but you are reluctant to do so because doing so will possibly prevent a future sweep. For example, you could probably revenge kill the target, but the opponent could than switch to a steel type, and later on they could use an extremekiller Arceus to finish off Salamence without setting up. Don’t let this prevent you from revenge killing. Salamence’s main role is revenge killing, and moxie is just icing on the cake, always remember this. 2. Salamence needs hazards- The key to using Salamence is having the right support. What I mean by support is spikes and stealth rocks. If these hazards are out on the field, the opponent is less inclined to switch back and forth, and as such Salamence can kill other pokes more effectively. Even if the opponent wanted to switch, they have the fear of being 2hkoed by one of Salamence’s dragon attacks or being outpredicted. So hazards are mandatory if you want to use Salamence effectively. 3. Use Outrage sparingly- Another mistake a lot of new users of Salamence make is they instantly resort to using Outrage instead of Dragon Claw. This is because a lot of pokes that are out on the field usually have a hell of a lot of HP left, and players want those pokemon out, so they use Outrage, and than all of a sudden a steel type like Ferrothorn can lay all of its hazards on Salamence or Paralyze it. Either way Salamence becomes semi useless. There are really only two situations where you need to use Outrage. The first situation is if something absolutely needs to be killed or it will destroy your team. A perfect example is if Mewtwo has set up one calm mind and still has almost all of it’s HP left. You have to take it down. Even if you are going to be locked in, you need to remember Salamence’s main job: revenge killer. The second situation in which you need to use Outrage is if there are only like two pokemon left on the opponents team. Than you don’t have to worry about getting confused or locked in. Otherwise, if there are like 4 pokemon left on the team, you are much better suited to using dragon claw. In essence Outrage is like an explosion, taking down everything including Salamence. But dragon claw is like a fire that gets progressively bigger. Threats There are many things within ubers that stops Salamence from sweeping or even revenge killing effectively. The next thing that you have to keep in mind when using Salamence is as long as the opponent has these pokemon, using Salamence will be a little more difficult. Here are the pokemon that cause problems for Salamence: 1. Extremekiller Arceus- Arceus isn’t scared of Salamence at all. It usually takes about half of Salamence’s health away from extremespeed and often survives whatever Salamence throws at it. 2. Dialga- The frustrating thing about Dialga is a +1 outrage usually won’t kill it. If you want to use Salamence, make sure you have something to take care of Dialga. 3. Groudon- Due to Groudon’s insane physical bulk, Groudon does a decent job at stopping Salamence. Fire Blast kind of helps out, but not very much. 4. Palkia- Palkia speed ties with Salamence, so if they have a scarf Palkia, and you don’t want to take any chances, make sure its dead before you try sweeping. 5. Ferrothorn- Ferrothorn is probably one of the most annoying threats to Salamence. Not only does Ferrothorn take negligible damage from Salamence’s dragon moves, it also can Twave it, leech seed it, lay down hazards, and all the while Salamence will take damage from iron barbs. 6. Giratina- Although Giratina is weak to Dragon, you will often be forced to make a very difficult decision when facing Giratina due to it’s ridiculous bulk. If you outrage you might still get burned, and than locked into a steel type. If you use dragon claw you simply won’t do much damage. So the bottom line is if you come in on Giratina, don’t stay in unless it has like half of it’s health left. 7. Forretress- Forretress is very much like Ferrothorn. Although it isn’t as threatening, it is enough to stop sweeps. 8. Excadrill- Just like Ferrothorn and Forretress, Excadrill doesn’t take much damage from Salamence’s dragon moves. Although in the rain Salamence outspeeds it and takes care of it with EQ, it still stops sweeps every now and than. 9. Garchomp- Garchomp is actually faster than Salamence, so if you come in on something like EQ, Dragon Claw, and kill whatever comes in, Garchomp can still revenge kill you. 10. Lugia- Lugia is yet another poke that causes problems for Salamence due to it’s bulk. Don’t even think about sweeping if the opponent still has Lugia. There are more pokes that cause problems for Salamence, but I mostly just stuck to the pokemon above what I call the “crit mark”. Basically this is every pokemon above 6.25% in usage. I use this number because this is the same number that is used for critical hits. You can’t prevent crits, just like you can’t counter everything in the metagame. So I just stick with the top 25, and that works for me. The key is to eliminate these pokemon before you try to sweep with Salamence. If these pokemon are still alive, Salamence isn’t nearly as formidable. So having a good Salamence team means that you have an answer to all ten of these threats. Calculations I’m the kind of guy that likes numbers. It isn’t enough for someone to tell me something is good. No, I want to see the raw statistics, and I’m sure you guys are the same way. So here I’ll provide the kind of damage output Salamence provides against all the top threats in ubers with their most common EVs. 1. Naïve +1 Dragon Claw vs 4/0 Kyogre (Choice Scarf): 64.3%- 76.3% 2. Naïve +1 Dragon Claw vs 252/0 Kyogre (Choice Specs): 54.4%- 64.6% 3. Naïve +2 Dragon Claw vs 252/252+ Kyogre (Calm Mind): 51.4%- 60.8% 4. Naïve +2 Dragon Claw vs 88/0 Normal Arceus (Swords Dance): 56.8%- 67.2% 5. Naïve +1 Dragon Claw vs 4/0 Mewtwo (Life Orb): 62.1%- 73% 6. Naïve Earthquake vs 4/0 Dialga (Offensive): 56.1%- 66.6% 7. Naïve +2 Dragon Claw vs 4/0 Dialga (Offensive): 66.9%- 79.2% 8. Naïve +2 Dragon Claw vs 252/252+ Groudon (Defensive): 37.8%- 44.8% 9. Naïve +2 Dragon Claw vs 4/0 Groudon (Rock Polish): 58.7%- 69.2 % 10. Naïve +1 Dragon Claw vs 4/0 Darkrai (Lead): 78%- 92.5% 11. Naïve +1 Dragon Claw vs 4/0 Palkia (Life Orb): 125.4%- 147.8% 12. Naïve Dragon Claw vs 4/0 Palkia (Life Orb): 83.8%- 99.3% 13. Naïve Dragon Claw vs 4/0 Rayquaza (Swords Dance): 83.5%- 99.1% 14. Naïve Fire Blast (in rain) vs 252/252+ Ferrothorn (Specially Defensive): 35.2%- 42% 15. Naïve +1 Earthquake vs 252/4 Ferrothorn (Specially Defensive): 37.7%- 44.6% 16. Naïve +1 Dragon Claw vs 248/252+ Giratina (Defensive): 50.4%- 60% 17. Naïve +1 Dragon Claw vs 252/0 Zekrom (Choice Band): 85.1%- 100.9% 18. Naïve Dragon Claw vs 4/0 Zekrom (Choice Scarf): 67.2%- 79.5% 19. Naïve Dragon Claw vs 0/0 Giratina O (Mixed): 61.2%- 72.5% 20. Naïve +1 Dragon Claw vs 0/0 Giratina O (Mixed): 91.6%- 107.9% Closing Remarks So that concludes my analysis of Uber Moxie Salamence. I hope you guys found this helpful and are a little more inclined to try out Salamence now. Later!
Good analysis. Moxie's a good ability, but Intimidate's useful too. It's great that it got Outrage from the Dream World, as before MoxieMence had to rely on Dragon Claw. I think you should've included a Dragon Dance set too, as that means you don't have to use a Choice Scarf. A set I found works: Salamence @ Life Orb Ability: Moxie Nature: Hasty (+Spd -Def) EVs: 4 HP, 252 Atk, 252 Spd Dragon Dance Outrage/Dragon Claw Earthquake Fire Blast After 1 Dragon Dance, you outrun Choice Scarf Kyogre. And at +1 you can 1/2HKO most of the tier. And thanks to Moxie, every KO makes you stronger. Once this set gets going, there's almost nothing that can stop it. The STAB move smashes everything that doesn't resist it (Outrage is more powerful, but does leave you prone to being revenge killed). Earthquake and Fire Blast take care of the things that do. The only things this set fears are Extremekiller Arceus and the rare Choice Band Scizor.
Incorrect. Each +1 adds an additional 50% of the original or base amount, not 50% of the current amount. A +1 Dragon Claw is (80 x 1.5) = 120, but a +2 Dragon Claw is (80 x 2) = 160, not (80 x 1.5 x 1.5) = 180. Here's a chart to demonstrate the concept: aa aaaDragon Clawaaaa aaaaOutrage +0aa a80 x 1 = 80aaaa aa120 x 1 = 120 +1a a80 x 1.5 = 120aaaa120 x 1.5 = 180 +2a aa80 x 2 = 160aa aaa120 x 2 = 240 +3a a80 x 2.5 = 200aaaa120 x 2.5 = 300 +4a aa80 x 3 = 240aa aaa120 x 3 = 360 Note that the effective power of the moves increases linearly, not exponentially as your model would predict. While a +1 Dragon Claw is as strong as a +0 Outrage, a +2 Dragon Claw is actually weaker than a +1 Outrage. You can use a damage calculator to verify that this is true. The same concept applies to items such as Choice Specs and abilities like Flash Fire. Choice Specs boosts your Special Attack by 50%, which is not always the same as +1 Special Attack. Take Heracross for example. If Leftovers Heracross Swords Dances once, its Close Combat will have an effective power of 120 x 2 = 240 (not including STAB). If CB Guts Heracross switches into Will-O-Wisp, its Close Combat will have an effective power of 120 x 1.5 (Choice Band) x 1.5 (Guts) = 270. If CB Heracross was Baton Passed +2 Attack, its Close Combat would have an effective power of 120 x 2 x 1.5 = 360. This information is incredibly useful when trying to break through walls with boosting sweepers. As we now know, two +2 attacks (2 x Base Power x 2) is stronger than one +4 attack (1 x Base Power x 3). Extreme Killer Arceus vs. Giratina is an excellent example of this. Say your Arceus has a Lum Berry and Swords Dances as your opponent switches to their Giratina, which is weakened but still in good health (80% HP). Here you have two options: you can either attack with Shadow Claw or Swords Dance again while Giratina wastes a turn burning your Lum Berry. If you Shadow Claw this turn and again the next, you'll do 80.2% - 94.4%, giving you a good chance to kill the Giratina even factoring Leftovers recovery. However, if you Swords Dance again and then Shadow Claw the next turn, you'll only do 59.9% - 70.6%, guaranteeing that the Giratina will live and giving it a chance to cut your sweep short as it Will-O-Wisps again. tl;dr - You can't be a Pokemon master without knowing a little math.
Dr. Doom and Myloxyloto, thanks for the input, I'm probably going to try out the DD version of Mence now. Or perhaps a mixed set is also viable. DSMO1, I appreciate you clearing that up for me. I had a feeling my math was a little wrong. Haha. Still, I recommend using Dragon Claw more than Outrage.
I would definitely recommend it Sasha. I haven't even tried a shellsmash strategy with Salamence yet, but I can only imagine how devastating it could be. For instance if using Smeargle you could spore the steel types, baton pass to Salamence, and spam with a +2 Adamant Dragon Claw. Perhaps a choice band could be used to boost the power even more. Extremespeed from Arceus could still be a giant problem though. Other than that, I don't see much stopping it.
Why would you ever use Salamence over Dialga as a Shell Smash recipient? Dialga has better typing, stats and resists common priority, there's a reason why pretty much every SS user has Dialga on their team. Not that I'm saying you shouldn't use Salamence in Ubers, but when it comes to Baton Pass recipients, Dialga is simply better than Salamence.
Yeah thats true Orcelot. I'm not saying Salamence should be used over Dialga any day. What I am saying though is that I have seen a couple of shell smash teams with Arceus and Rayquaza on them. Perhaps Salamence could be used in their place? At the moment I'm just brainstorming. I will admit some ideas are a little far fetched, but that is the whole purpose of this analysis, to see what Salamence can and can't do.
Yeah, but that's way outclassed by a lot of things I Ubers; I you're using Salamence, it's as a threatening revenge killer who can sweep easily.
Brick break is another good option for Salamence. Against fully specially defensive Ferrothorn, it actually does more damage than fire blast in the rain, and the special attack EVs can instead be put into defense to handle Arceus' extremespeed a little better. However you are a little more susceptible to Groudon if you do this.
Solid analysis. I'd formally write a skeleton for this and post it in the Uber QC forum. Hydro Pump brings down Skarm faster and has a solid surprise factor
If you're worried about Skarmory, why not just use Fire Blast? Even with no investment at all, it still 1HKOs after Stealth Rock. 0SpAtk Life Orb Salamence (Neutral) Fire Blast vs 252HP/0SpDef Skarmory (Neutral): 97% - 114% (324 - 384 HP). Guaranteed 2HKO. 83% chance to OHKO.
Well I finally did it everyone. I finally reached #1. I can now definitively say that Salamence was practically made for ubers. For anyone who aspires to one day have that top spot as well, I STRONGLY recommend you give Salamence a try. You won't be disappointed. As for me, I feel like I have accomplished my personal goal in regards to the uber competitive metagame. Becoming #1 was never enough for me, I made it my personal goal to use the pokes that were my favorites, which included Giratina O and Salamence. Now that I have accomplished that, I don't know what I'm going to do now. Maybe the whole uber metagame will drastically change when Black and White 2 comes out, and I'll have another challenge, or maybe I'll give the lower tiers a try. I don't know, but all I have to say is that for anyone out there who is reading this, I will say this with the utmost sincerity: If you want to be "the best" one day.. You can. Simple as that. Anyways I'm heading out guys, I appreciate everyones input and I encourage any other points people have to make about Salamence.