I'm sorry, I do not want to start an argument (because I totally feel the same way) but whether you like it or not, Greenwater is right and if you do not believe it, then you are pretty arrogant. as said in my previous post, nothing will ever be perfect, but we can come damn close to it, but to Bad Romance and Vintages Credit, Greenwater, you used a REALLY bad example with "loners" and what I get from your post is that, you might not do anything, or very little to help because it is inevitable. That is true, but to do nothing or barely anything to at least keep the flaming down to a minimum is completely arrogant and absurd. ________________________________________________ EDIT: Might I just add that people are also quite negative about new themes.
You know, treating people like shit eventually(or should) leads to mutes being handed out regardless of petty things like seniority, especially if some of the people posting here act like they're posting on the server. Just saying.
Sorry guys, but i think you have misinterpreted what I said. i'm saying that this stuff usually happens in real life as well, if you haven't noticed. I meant to say you should try to be nice, but many people aren't that way. I'm one of these loners in real life, but I feel accepted on the internet, lol. @ Bad Romance That is not what I said at all. Being a dick in real life is not ok, especially the mafia channel. I do help new people. I'm just observing the fact that this type of stuff happens in real life too, and you should deal with in the same way you would in real life instead of doing some kind of internet way to make things better. @ Vintage Books I'm not trying to get banned. @Novan_Hero Thanks for agreeing with me, but you still had a little bit of insulting towards me in your post. @pokemonnerd I'm not sure if you were trying to disagree/insult me, please say more stuff. As you can see, I wasn't trying in insult a certain group of people or be immature. It just got misinterpreted wrong by some people, which made future posters think the same way. I was just commenting on how it was a problem in the past, and this stuff will never go away, and then I connected it to the real world, how the problem would never go away in the real world too.
I'm just saying it really sounds like you are trying to justify the apparent rudeness to new/less liked players in the channel.
Well I'm not trying to justify the hate in the channel. I just commented on what I have noticed in the real world. What made you think that? Do you think I'm a mean person? You should know that I'm a nice person and I don't hate new players. You've known me for a while now. I wasn't even trying to start an arguement. I was just saying what I've noticed around me. Think about how I might feel right now, to know that 4 people are against my comments, it really hurts me.
OMG I'm sorry Greenwater!!! It wasn't meant to seem like that :c I'm not against your comments, I actually agree with them but the example you used and the way you linked it to RL was so idk ugh... I'm sorry if my comments were read in the wrong way :s _________________________ Here's a log: Spoiler (00:42:30) ±Kill: Novan_Hero (Inspector) died! (00:42:30) *************************************************************************************** (00:42:30) Current Roles: Bodyguard, Mafia, Mafia, Mafia, Pretty Lady, Villager, WereWolf. (00:42:30) Current Players: Abdelrahman, Firer, Paulo276, Rainbow Dash, SleezyNinja, Supergrass, WhodatRans. (00:42:30) Time: Day (00:42:30) You have 30 seconds to debate who are the bad guys! : (00:42:30) *************************************************************************************** (00:42:36) Rainbow Dash: THANKS A LOT PL (00:42:36) Paulo276: That fail BG (00:42:39) WhodatRans: CRap bg fail (00:42:40) Paulo276: inb4 grass is BG (00:42:41) Abdelrahman: Fail BG? (00:42:45) Rainbow Dash: I'm BG and PL distracted me (00:42:45) SleezyNinja: lol (00:42:47) Supergrass: what? (00:42:49) Supergrass: oh (00:42:49) SleezyNinja: pro bg (00:42:50) Paulo276: loool (00:42:51) Rainbow Dash: yeah PL you suck (00:42:52) Supergrass: ... (00:42:53) Abdelrahman: Sorry, Dash. (00:42:54) Paulo276: Pro PL (00:42:55) WhodatRans: pro pl (00:42:56) Supergrass: fuck guys (00:43:01) Rainbow Dash: I give up mhmm....
I'm definitely not trying to insult you, but rather it was just a general statement to the whole "Acting like an ass is passable in real life, so it's ok here!" The only reason why it happens in real life is because either 1) the person you're attacking is a push over, 2) the person simply doesn't feel like arguing with you or 3) you haven't had your face punched in yet. And that's really all this is: it's not people being loners, but rather they're trying to defend directly attacking newer players. You first used the school setting as an example; this thread was made essentially because of bullies you'd find during recess, not because people like to be "loners" while playing. Newsflash: you don't learn the ins and outs of mafia within a few days. It normally takes at least a week or two for people to know how to avoid making mistakes. Especially with all of the new themes that can come out, on top of the already popular ones. Changing from being Tifa to having a role with multiple powers like Samus can be kind of overwhelming to newcomers. It's just that this kind of thinking that you're putting forth is what caused mafia to die the first time. Continuously acting like an ass(like attacking new people for slight or big mistakes) is simply a quick and fast way to get muted for a little bit, if you're too harsh. You should be actively coaching people on what they did wrong so they can, you know, actually learn to play the game. That's all, really.
thanks novan and poemonnerd for replying saying that you weren't trying to insult me and actually telling me on this thread that you didnt mean it. Anyways, that log you have there is a good example of what not to do. i dont say stuff like that a lot, but i'd admit, when i'm in a bad mood and actually feel like winning, i would say something like that. Also, sometimes, the mafia brainwashes the pl to pm them and saying they are clean when they're really not. I did that once and i told the pl to go on ppl on the other mafia, and the inspector, so its not the pl's fault if he or she is ignorant. and yeah, i agree that i need to use a better comparison than real life, but i needed a comparison to compare with, because a good comparison must be something that everyone has experienced before. anyways, thanks for coming back and being interested in mafia all of a sudden. also, not many people know that mafia died way back in october, and i bet no one except me and hobbes2 remembers, lol. no one talks about it anymore.
I'm just gonna throw it out there, you old players who think they should be MA and aren't, ever think there's a reason that you aren't MA? Get off your high horse, you clearly aren't as good as you think you are - swallow your pride and be nice to the new kids. end. of. story.
I'll agree with that, even though it felt like I swallowed a lemon with the MA part. New kids though should go to #Mafia Tutoring if they don't know how to play. But it's important to understand that some new people who play Mafia have played the actual party game and know what's going on might derp on the themes.
I think what happened in this thread is people were looking for justification to attack newbs. Mafia is tough to learn. Especially with themes. Do you think being cynical and whining about how Mafia goes downhill really does anything at all? I can't believe some of the hostile, offensive, and stupid statements I read in this thread. I am ashamed of you.
Now im fairly new, and adapted to the nature of mafia quickly, yes there are players who are to be frank, rude to other users. Now I don't really mind people insulting me or my theme (which to be perfectly honest is still fairly new and is hardly played so I wont get feedback on it much, but the attitude that some people have towards the newer themes or players is sickening to be honest. And I don't particularly want to name anyone here but why let people hide behind their arrogance because "their themes are better or they know best" Spoiler (21:46:04) Fluttershy: yeah but uh (21:46:07) Fluttershy: POTC sucks (21:46:27) Samzy: constructive critocism please? (21:46:34) Fluttershy: okay (21:46:43) Fluttershy: how about making a theme that isn't based on something that sucks[/HIDE] This is the sort of thing this topic was made for, its a shame and I wish that for the sake of the fun mafia games that there are we can all get along :)
On the subject of people complaining about new themes, Things MAs Are Not Supposed To Do But Would Really Like To: shove people who join a theme and instantly say that it sucks in caps. But seriously, there are only a few reasons for a theme to be objectively bad: it's broken, it's unbalanced, or it takes bloody forever. Anything else is your subjective opinion, which others may not share. Please do not complain about themes for subjective reasons unless you think having the MAs dislike you is a good thing.
I'd extend that to people who join just to say one thing then quit again Though shoving won't really help, since they're gonna be unjoining anyways~
Ok. You guys need to stop talking about my comments. I said I was sorry, and yet, some people continue to insult me. I respect the fact that only 2 people bothered to say sorry to me, but the rest of you just insulted me. Don't bother saying you're sorry to me now, because I know you're only saying it to make yourself look good in response to this comment. Most of you who insulted me should know better, because you've been here longer than I am. You guys were people I trusted too. I'm generally nice to new people. I don't attack them because they are new. If they mess up, its not their fault. I'm not trying to justify being mean to new people, they were just suggestions on why they were being attacked. I know that the comment I'm referring to was speciffically towards me, because no one else has made a stupid comment yet. Also, I know I have lost my chance for being MA, and I guess I'm not as good as I thought I was apparently. I know I haven't gotten it because I asked for it, and because of my behavior in the mafia channel before I asked. If you're mad at me, then at least don't post stuff like that. I know you're referring to me, because no one else has been around as long as I have and asked for it. If this seems like a rant, then sorry. I'm not trying to act immature here. I'm trying to defend myself and my name.
Erm, I think people are "insulting" you because even though you apologized, they believe your post was outrageous and unnecessary. But maybe I'm wrong.
geez, i hate when i need to do this. Firstly, Green, people aren't going to apologise to you, your post was, quite frankly, ridiculous and on top of that you actually expect people to apologise to you, but that they won't "because I know you're only saying it to make yourself look good in response to this comment", ironically all your explaining about your other post is doing this exact thing. Secondly, People aren't necessarily talking to you, they MAY be using you as an example to make a point about a general statement, but it is not a personal thing - this is because some see you as one of the players who think that older=better and we wish to stamp out this behaviour as it is completely untrue. For example (not so much now), but when Elliot just began playing, he was one of the best mafia players imo, even though he had been playing a day or so Thirdly, a toxic attitude to new people (and any players in general) will not be tolerated by anyone, no matter how good or old you think you are or if you think that this entitles you to arrogant douchery P.S. Green, you haven't gotten MA because of your attitude, thinking that older players should get MA (as posted in the Project Mafia Suggestion Box (We all knew who you were despite your 'fake' name) where you even had the audacity to nominate yourself as an MA candidate) - also, you are a shameless suck up, that is all
the fact that players are nervous and scared to play mafia is a sign that current players need to chill out and relax while playing, take it less seriously, have more fun, and be less competitive. It is simply a text based internet game, nothing more. Relax when playing, and just have a good time. @greenwater10 why would I apologize to you?????????????????????????? I still 100% agree with what my post said, so why would I apologize for saying something that was completely legit? I really don't get how you can expect apologies for calling you out on a ridiculous post.
This. It's really annoying when Serp ends a game because he thinks every theme sucks and he wants to play default (even when default lost to that theme during the voting). We barely have any time between games to make quick comments. I don't see that as a problem as long as people are doing that say something useful.
I definitely agree with this topic; when I re-joined mafia on an alt (after I had stopped for quite a while), it seemed like no one wanted me to play due to some mistakes and terminology misread. But then I got it and it's fine - but we should teach newbies and not just redirect them too hastily.
I came to apologize but all I get is more insults. I get people aren't gonna apologize to me except novan, thanks for clearing that up, and i get how its ironic that I tried to make myself look good by making the post and telling all of you the same, I was actually thinking about that when I was writing my post. However, I must disagree with your second paragraph. I'm the only one who ever asked for MA and justified attacking new players (or at least made it look like I was trying to justify, even though i was explaining why it happened.) I agree that new players can be good too. I also agree that I shouldn't give MA. If I was an MA that was gonna pick another MA, I wouldn't even pick myself. Older players do know all the rules, however, that is not to say that new players wouldn't learn the rules. Also, I know my attitude has been wrong over the past few months, but I think I wasn't always like this. Remember me back in August, or November, I forgot when I met you. Anyways, sorry for being a jerk to everyone. If you want me to do or say anything I will do that. I just don't want you guys to hate or insult me forever. Can we do what Rice Kirby is doing and changing the topic so that we don't hurt my feelings anymore?
No need to be a smart alec here, besides, if people are constantly douchey to Green, then obviously the point of this thread isn't working to it's fullest when even one of the more "veteran" players get's picked on. Seriously, we all make mistakes and we are always misunderstood one way or another, so let's just drop the topic of greens "ludicrous" statement and really focus on the topic, which is: How are we gonna fix the current "Dark Ages" that mafia is currently in? I'm still a noob IMO, but I'm always against when people are mean for no reason, so I think we should try and make it a trend for other (more experienced) mafia players to be more intolerant against discriminating against newer users because "it ruins the game." or because " [*PR dies N1 and s/he was a new user*] OMG Why didn't [PR] Claim?! We have no chance of winning." because really, it's just a game and people are getting worked up over a bunch of words and scripting.
I did try getting a cooldown period of 1 minute between games but apparently mafia players are impatient!! Seriously I don't see what's wrong with it :< I mean games go quick enough, what's a minute, maybe even only 30 seconds. But w/e I'm going off topic here.
Sums up this topic beautifully imo Off topic and on a side note, I'd love a period of time where we can discuss the last game and how it went, I'm sure a lot of other people would too.
I agree with this On the topic, I haven't really seen anyone be mean to a newb lately, which is cool. If someone is a newb, the easiest thing to do is PM them them yiran's guide, give them a breif overview of how mafia works, and if they are intruiged, they'll stay, otherwise they won't.
Perhaps users could be allowed to talk during the join session without joining? I don't think there would be a problem with that...
Agreed. Often people need to make quick comments /to more than one person/ - in such a way it would be inadequate to do so in PM, and relevant to the conversation - and the current system makes them have to join, speak and unjoin, and if they're not quick enough they may be stuck in a theme they don't want to play. So...yup. x3
Sometimes people rage at newbies and when I tell them not to, they rage at me. Maybe have some kind of ban for those who go overboard?
I started playing mafia around a month ago and while I was learning I though people were really nice. I think part of the problem is that players want to win mafia and having a new player on your team can prevent you from doing so. If experienced players just take a little time to go over mafia one on one with the newbie they will learn so much faster. Or even just direct them to the mafia tutoring channel or the mafia guide and tell them that you can help them if they have any questions or need some help. When I was learning how to play mafia that made the biggest difference for me. I think its fine for better players to comment on mistakes that the younger players make as long as they are nice about it. At the end of a day though its just a game and people need to remember that. Anyways thanks for being nice to me everyone because I'm still a newbie and a bit of a noob at mafia :3 I want this. I like talking in the mafia channel and this would give me more time to do so :D lololol
Usually they don't because the newbies haven't broken any rules of the channel. Very valid point there. Thing is, if nobody bothers to tutor them, or if they don't bother to seek help, they won't ever learn how to play. It happened to me before, on my first alt, and Mafia Tutoring didn't exist. If I were to give an analogy for the state of mafia now, it would be comparable to the average American high school in stories. First there are the popular cliques, people whom everyone in mafia loves and looks up to. Then, there would be the quiet ones or something like that. You get my point. And the newcomers, the newbies, would be akin to the new student in school — of course they're not used to the school's traditions and culture and everything. They're not used to mafia. I'm not naming names or anything, but sometimes, the 'popular cliques' (or some other 'cliques') would taunt the newbies. This dissuades the newcomers, contributing to, as this topic clearly refers to, "the toxic atmosphere of mafia channel". Of course, on the newbies' part, to avoid being laughed at they should learn the ropes of mafia first and/or contact a tutor. We are not just arguing about games made by some scripts, we're arguing about everyone's general sour attitude towards new players. And this can spread to even our tolerance of others irl or in Tohjo/during battling or even ourselves making friends irl. It's not about you, or the your thoughts or feelings, but the attitudes you adapt while dealing with the newcomers.They are the clueless ones, we are the ones with the knowledge, and instead of discriminating against them, we should help them. We were, too, once newbies ourselves and most probably received help from kind souls along the way; that's how we have ended up here. Imagine if everyone was nasty to you (like we are to newbies now), would you have stayed in mafia for long enough to be such an active mafian? I guessed not. Thing is, mafia isn't just about you and what you think of the newbies and everything. Mafia is also about Basically, my point is, be nice to the newbies. No matter how ignorant or clueless they are, you have once been like this before.
The problem there is however newbies simply WONT join Mafia Tutoring, if a tutor invites them, or tell them to join they will refuse it.
I think you can't generalize that. The day I started I visited Mafia Tutoring by my own will... I think people shouldn't simply play a game without knowing its rules. Well, some people said I'd go there after I visited it, but I was just not familiar with some roles. Is there a possibility for only allowing people to join a game who have gone to Mafia Tutoring before?
I myself find that just talking to them while their playing through PM works so well. I have done it a couple of times to players who new and they have always been willing to learn. So once again I will suggest that, while mafia tutoring is good, you can help a new player in mafia channel while their playing also so they can play and learn at the same time.
Maybe the newbies would want to have a taste of what mafia's like before actually learning the ropes.
Hmm... yeah. Maybe what I said was too radical... And I agree with Chippymunk. PMing a newcomer when he is your teammate, trying to be kind to him and explaining what is happening are good things to do. I've helped some people doing this :D