The Toxic Atmosphere of Mafia Channel

Discussion in 'Mafia' started by Katia, Apr 29, 2012.

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  1. Katia

    Katia Haxy Haxy!

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    Many of the MAs including myself have been concerned with the toxic air in Mafia channel. We have been seeing quite of a bit of meanness and intolerance towards newbies.

    Yes newbies do make mistakes and mistakes can be irritating. Yet you must all remember, we were ALL newbies at one point and even now we occasionally still make mistakes. Heck I once killed bg as Samurai when I didn't know they were bg and I had more then a year of mafia experience under my belt.

    Don't forget Mafia channel needs newbies to stay healthy. Imagine if no one new ever joined mafia, eventually it would wither and die. I'm sure that no mafian wants that to happen!

    So I encourage you all, treat every newbie the way you would wanted to be treated if you were a newbie.

    Also don't lower yourself to insulting people if they make a mistake. I am sure you wouldn't want people to insult you if you were the one who made a mistake. Remember the golden rule we all learned back in kindergarten: Treat others the way you would want to be treated.
     
  2. Saltopus

    Saltopus P.I. Saltopus

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    In fact it would then morph into what I like to call PBC.
     
  3. Xinc

    Xinc Time for Oras?

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    PBC?

    Lol, I'll agree with Katia on this. Some people turn afoul when newbies make mistakes.
     
  4. GreenWater10

    GreenWater10 GreenWater10

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    wow katia, u have ur own account on the forums now. and thanks for making this point clear. orion needs to be nicer to old people, like me!!!

    when i first read this, i thought u were making a theme, lol.
     
  5. Demonic Cake

    Demonic Cake The cake is not a lie...

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    This.
    I came from PBC, went back there for a bit when here was down.
    Mafia was literally like three people at what would be peak times here.

    @Xinc: PBC = PokeBattleCenter server. They have Mafia too but it's nowhere near as good as ours. (I know, I've experienced theirs at peak time. Getting FCM/IM was considered an achievement. And PL always claimed as well as inspector, no one asked for PRs...o_O)
     
  6. Fegelein

    Fegelein The Mechanic

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    I never flame, but if someone does something really stupid (like AFK, or kills revealed teamate like Kefka killing revealed Kuja) then it is worthy of a ban and I do not hesitate to say so. But other than that, I never flame and even tell people off for flaming other players.
    To be honest, everyone makes mistakes.
     
  7. Demonic Cake

    Demonic Cake The cake is not a lie...

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    Kefka can't kill Kuja, though?
    Kuja voting Kefka after being told of Kefka's identity, though...
     
  8. profDEADPOOL

    profDEADPOOL INSANE Professer

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    But it is good to give advice to noobs. Thing is sometimes you try to help them and they start raging at you. That is really annoying.
     
  9. Shiny Rayquaza

    Shiny Rayquaza Your nightmare!

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    I totally agree with Katia, new players should have a chance of learning the games, before you actually begin raging at them.

    New players, will need to learn the roles in most themes (those which is popular), before people actually begins raging at them.

    Also i think we should add the #Mafia Turtoring channel link on the #Mafia Channel, instead of only #project mafia.
     
  10. Demonic Cake

    Demonic Cake The cake is not a lie...

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    ^this
    *cough*that time I got Exploud'd for explaining Miller*cough*
     
  11. two sides of one coin

    two sides of one coin sick of all her shit

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    Actually I learned my mafia on PBC... -___-
    PBC is superior to Beta on a few things, like a nice community and crazy auth.
    But on this subject, I haven't done anything but sometimes you cannot talk to the new people. It's hard not to rage when you're Hades and nub Cerb reveals you. :/
     
  12. Yttrium

    Yttrium Well-Known Member Developer Developer

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    It used to be an achievement to get the FCM/IM split on Beta even during the peak hours. x:
     
  13. Katia

    Katia Haxy Haxy!

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    Well sometimes the person who did it didn't know better. So in cases like this, instead of banning them, we offer them tutoring and direct them to the channel.
     
  14. Thrighragon

    Thrighragon To Slay a Samurai

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    I personally learned my mafia from RL experiences that dates about 6 years ago... so yeah.[/HIDE]

    I dont exactly FLAME, but yeah. Newbies like to ragekill, and whatever. However i simply ragequit for a while when they play for a few days and they still act like a "newbie". Idk about you, but its hard for me to keep playing after they claim PR/Maf for no reason or they blame you for not knowing their role as inspector. Heck, some don't even keep PMs open. If it was an accident, could they altleast have asked the PR to pm again? I want to post logs, but just... its too pathetic... just no.

    Otherwise, i agree... unless they still show up with this even after 2 weeks of playing.
     
    Last edited: Apr 30, 2012
  15. Sandusky

    Sandusky My body is ready!

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    I hate it when noobs ask me obvious questions and I try to keep calm, and then I rage on them for them being absolutely fucking stupid.
     
  16. BebbZ

    BebbZ Member

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    Then refer them to #Mafia Tutoring, it's why the channel exists.

    What is obvious to older players is not obvious to newer ones.
     
  17. Sandusky

    Sandusky My body is ready!

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    I have a short temper...
     
  18. Hobbes2

    Hobbes2 Aren't I dead or something

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    This post sums it up. I came from PBC too. I even played there yesterday. It was shit, and everyone was being mean, and everything.

    Yep, treat others how you want to be treated, pretty simple
     
  19. Sandusky

    Sandusky My body is ready!

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    Well, some people can't help but to get pissed at others, including myself, I have a short temper and with Serp following my every move, it gets shorter. But, I don't want this to be like PBC where every few words, you see someone yelling nigger and other insults. A peaceful mafia channel makes everything move smoother.
     
    Last edited: May 1, 2012
  20. Darkkis

    Darkkis The Superhero of Mafia

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    Yeah, I gotta admit. I have raged to some noobs.. There was Stone Kirby, Marx, the distractor (can't remember the name) and Sleep Kirby (me!). Distractor went on me, and no kills. They were going to vote me, and I told them that Marx kills distractors, so I couldn't be Marx. They still voted me out and lost because of it. Also some teamreveals have made me rage.

    Not going to rage anymore. I remember how I was treated when I started playing Mafia; everyone said I was stupid and told me to quit. I was close to quit, but I didn't. I ignored them and played and got hang of it. Now I am somewhat good at it.
     
  21. IceKirby

    IceKirby A.K.A. RiceKirby

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    Actually, Marx doen't kill distractors, only Marx Soul does.

    But well, I rage about games all the time, but the worst words I ever use are "fail" or sometimes "stupid [role]". But I still remember how I protected the WW for a whole game in my first day of mafia, so I try not to be hateful towards new players AS LONG as they are trying to improve. If the player is new and doesn't show any sign of wanting to learn the game I'll get mad (there was a time someone team revealed me because he was being stalled and thought I could kill because I was Don. I explained how Don and PL worked 3 times, but then asked for a ban when he revealed me).
     
  22. chippymunk

    chippymunk Bran-ed

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    i feel like (to give them a chance to learn we sholud give newer comers a channel of their own to practise in)
     
  23. Bubba1

    Bubba1 Member

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    Thx. I was pretty pissed off when I tried to play mafia when I started PO and everyone yellin at me all the time. I'm very familiar with the original theme. BUT when you have like 50 different confusing random ass themes being played how the fuck am i supposed to learn them all instantly by the time im done studying /roles for all that random shit the games over.
     
  24. Demonic Cake

    Demonic Cake The cake is not a lie...

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    To be fair, default all the time is boring...
     
  25. Sandusky

    Sandusky My body is ready!

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    True, but I can't get into Mafia Channel until June 30th, so I dunno about now...
     
  26. Thrighragon

    Thrighragon To Slay a Samurai

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    I have to disagree. They could buff the mafia tho....
     
  27. waehofen

    waehofen Peace, love, & understanding

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    Wasn't going to say anything in this thread, as I'm probably a bad example given my resistance to new themes, but I think this ties into another negative aspect of the games...
    Well, if your own partner reveals you (especially Hades killing Cerb in Myth theme, that's just awful lol) that's one thing, but I've noticed a few people just get mad when people deviate from common playstyle. The emphasis on, for instance, BG having to protect the revealed Samurai every Night for fear of a lot of hatred the next Day if the latter dies is kind of silly, and leads to stagnation. (The majority of the time, the mafia is too afraid of losing their kill to the BG to target the Samurai anyway. And you know this is true because if it weren't, PLing couldn't be used as any sort of evidence since there would normally be fewer than the max possible number of kills.) And stagnation leads to bad, bad things. (I don't know anything about PBC, when was that active?)

    I guess what I'm trying to say is that judging by posts, villagers go into the game with the most excitement and then frequently have the fun beaten out of them by more "experienced" players (often pretty new, or bad) who tell them they can't start a vote or use certain well-known gambits without being accused of "trolling." I think this creates a double standard and heavily targets new players. If a newer player tries to do something different, there's usually no tolerance at all for it, and so a lot of the newbie-hate is basically unreasonable. So yeah, maybe that new player who seems to "suck" is just a cool guy. Or maybe he really just doesn't get mafia, but after a minute or two explaining the basics of how to play will be. I'd probably be ashamed personally if I evaluated myself on this, but I guess there's something about real incompetence that just bothers me, whether the player in question joined yesterday or before I did.

    And yeah, doesn't someone have stats about medium to large default games, and how incredibly unbalanced they are in favor of the village? I remember hearing about that several months ago iirc.
     
  28. Serpentine

    Serpentine Member

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    I kinda just want to go back to troll -friendly mode, and just ban for general stupidity/idiocy.
     
  29. "Bad To The Bone" Balla

    "Bad To The Bone" Balla so B.A.D.

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    many of the post in this thread are the reason why people feel intimidated to start/learn to play mafia these days. I have noticed a few users who I know, and when i ask them if they want to play, they tell me they are too intimidated to join.

    You 'old players' need to get of you high horse and go back to playing people used to. People get so caught up in things like 'no vote at 4' and 'inspector claim' and other things like that, they have forgotten the funnest part about mafia, spontaneity. People doing something crazy, using funny alts. NOT playing a theme the way its 'supposed' to be played, I agree with serp we need a more loose moderating system, which allows for the fun to be had, for new and old users alike.
     
  30. chippymunk

    chippymunk Bran-ed

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    Be kind whenever possible. It is always possible.
    Dalai Lama
     
  31. PoignantLyrics

    PoignantLyrics Member

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    This. I've been lurking on the channel and playing under various different alts, and the moment I seemed to 'not get a theme', I was more or less mobbed by players telling me that I'm doing it wrong, or I'm 'trolling'. When I was a lot more active, players were friendly, the channel was relaxed, and people played Mafia to have fun, rather than to be die hard competitive players. Competition is fun and all, but when it stifles newer members joining the fray, going as far as intimidating them, then there is a problem there that needs to be addressed.
     
  32. Smunch

    Smunch Smunch

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    Here is what I do.

    If someone does something stupid, I rate them on a scale from one to ten. Either 0/10 or -X/10.

    If someone does something competent, I give them a 10/10 or a 15+/10.

    This has been Smunch's contribution of toxicity.
     
  33. Shiny Rayquaza

    Shiny Rayquaza Your nightmare!

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    I also find is weird, how people get killed if they managed to win as a GF role in the last game, i have tried that alot of times...
     
  34. Jiggles

    Jiggles mami circular

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    This really proves my point about people being really bad to newbies.

    (20:05:15) ±Game: Zotsune joined the game!
    (20:05:17) ±Game: Jiggles joined the game!
    (20:05:18) ±Game: CREW LUVv joined the game!
    (20:05:30) Zotsune: how does this game style work??

    Guy was new, didnt know about Mafia, asked nicely (phrased wrongly though XD)

    And then (Not naming names)

    (20:05:45) Guywhosbadtonewbies;O;: omg leave if you dont know how to play
    (20:05:53) Zotsune: fine

    Where he promptly left the channel.

    ._. I think you know, people could be nicer to those newbies, teach them how to play instead of chasing them away.
     
  35. Lamperi

    Lamperi I see what you did there

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    I mafiabanned Trademark for 2 weeks for that.

    edit:// after talking with him unbanned him.

    But especially older users: try to have fun and teach new players instead of telling them to bog off.
     
    Last edited: May 7, 2012
  36. GreenWater10

    GreenWater10 GreenWater10

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    You know what I think? I think this is always going to be a problem in the Mafia Channel, and even in real life. Here is something that I have found a long time ago: http://pokemon-online.eu/forums/showthread.php?9938-Respect-Etiquette

    Yeah, back when Reneko used to play, and Hobbes2, Tyrexinator, and Professor Oak used to comment on everything, and we only had 1 page of mafia threads instead of the current 6. I miss Jaxen too.

    Anyways, same place, same issue. That was made in November, and this was made 6 months later. Its has always been an issue, and it will continue to be an issue. I remember Gold making a thread on posting expeiences with haters, but I'm too lazy to find that. I just remembered the one from a while ago because it was the exact same thing, except Katia cared to make a cool title to hers. In real life, you notice people in school sitting alone, like loners, and people usually disrespects these types of people. Its just the way things are. The history of the world was based upon hate. This is sounding a lot like an essay right now, so I'll submit this as it is and work on my real essay.
     
  37. Zzyzx Road

    Zzyzx Road Member

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    Totally agreeing with VB and wae (too lazy to quote lol). I'm not that new, not that old either, but one thing that irritates me more than what some call stupidness, is their own intollerance to this. You were supposed to do whatever the heck you want when playing mafia - obviously without ruining other people's games. Everything is OK (or should be) unless you do stuff like teamdaykill when you get team-reveal or revealing partners.

    Villies claiming Inspector/Samurai is another example of general 'stupidity' that I'd rather call funny play. This can be considered meatshield (and it doesn't matter if it works or not). Everyone does things for a reason, and people should evaluate another's actions before judging (and in case of admins/auth, banning).

    Players will only get quick on thought and have good strategies as they play more. If you keep treating the new players as idiots/banning them when they do some shit, they will never come back and learn better. I know I rage on newbies sometimes, but I'm trying to stop - the first times I played mafia I got banned for botquoting an inspection after I had randed two mafias of different teams and cleaned a villager (?). I think Katia's advice is not just for random mafiachan users...

    Anyway, I've seen noobhate is gradually disappearing and I hope it becomes null. It will never disappear completely though, as the ones that were newbies yesterday will now consider themselves 'more experient' and they will have to learn not to hate just as we did.
     
  38. Novan_Hero

    Novan_Hero Member

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    I actually have to agree, with me still being somewhat noobie (only been on the channel for just under a month now iirc) and I decided to play because I thought I knew about it, so I guess I wanted to try it on a Bigger channel. As soon as I entered, I joined a game and when I joined that game I was immediately insp and I didn't claim so it was chaotic with it being default and people saying "where's insp???", "insp claim!!!!" etc. and then I died n1. Afterwards more chaos ensued, people were like OMG you're so noob! You suck! omg we're gonna lose because he didn't claim!!! in a nutshell, I felt like shit. But then luckily, Luneth PM'd me explaining the mechanics of the game and I got it somewhat and next game, I was insp again so I claimed BUT I botquoted so that they would believe me, and even more flaming happens. Luckily, because of the community I live in, I ignore and go with whatever flamers/bullies/trolls say because they don't expect that and it helps you deal with negative stuff like this. So I stayed on and ignored the negative comments about me being a noob, and look at me now, apparently for a new themer, I've created an amazing theme (even though it needed some minor updating) I have a mafia tutee (I wonder if he still thinks I'm his tutor...) and I've made friends with countless people. Heck, just last night when we played a theme I haven't played before and I got revealing samurai (didn't know it revealed) I killed to test if it was a revealing role and it was, but in doing so I killed the BG and because I was on for awhile, people just lol'd. then D3, I managed to start a streak of killing my team. Someone posted in a PM to me about people not PMing samu, someone called me a noob and someone was in disbelief that I was still alive and started to imply that the current players were noobs. Another time was when I was the Last garland VS Cecil and Locke, I voted for Locke close to the end (he voted for me already) and I won because Cecil didn't vote with me and people started calling that player a noob. So yah, if you don't let new players Blossom, then you won't ever know the potential they could bring to the game.

    btw, I like competition but not when people blame noob and even other users, the amount of flaming that happens over a simple game is astounding, because of that, I started to become the good guy [bad role] part whenever I have no hope in winning or no need to win. So I hope that we can bring the mafia channel back to being more fun, because we have to admit it, nothing can ever be perfect so, even if we manage to get flaming down to a minimum, we've done all we can and we've accomplished something amazing.

    So remember Veterans, be nice to nooblets, because you'll never know what they'll bring in the future! c:
     
  39. Halsey

    Halsey Wildstar

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    "People are dick in real life, so being a dick in the mafia channel is ok"
    That is such a dumb logic.

    If you helped new people, instead of trying to justify acting like a idiot with a terrible logic, more users would feel welcomed, making the channel more active and would improve the quality of the games, because new people would know how to play the game.

    But you can act like an immature kid and insult new people, instead of trying to improve the channel. That is probably going to work!!!!
     
  40. "Bad To The Bone" Balla

    "Bad To The Bone" Balla so B.A.D.

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    I cant believe i just read this. this has to be one of the most immature posts I have ever read. Being rude to newbies is in no way justified by the fact that there are "loners" that are apparently disrespected by people (?) this kind of behavior is frowned upon in real life, and of course is frowned upon on the internet.

    This is horrible logic, and I think you need to rethink things, if you want mafia channel to turn into a more elitist circle jerk than it already is, be my guest. Though this is the kind of attitude that will probably get you banned from the channel.
     
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