Every tier is a miniature metagame, therefore every tier should be balanced, older generation or not. There were still illegal and broken things in Gen One.
No idea what Crystal is talking about since he knows that we've played RBY LC and NU over at RBY2K10 for quite a while and that it is certainly balanced enough to become its own tier. And if you were to look outside of Smogon, Xdevo, you'd find that RBY NU and LC have been played for a long time, as recently stated. There's no real playerbase in it because PO doesn't feature true RBY yet, which means that us 2K10'ers won't migrate over from NetBattle Supremacy. Also being a hindrance is that the Stadium mechanics are dysfunctional in many ways (Focus Energy, HP draining moves). When this is corrected we'll come and play.
Well I have an idea, maybe people don't perceive every single thing in the exact same intensity. Is that a radical notion? So how does them (RBY NU and LC) having been played 'for quite a while' or 'been played for a long time' actually suggest a decent-size player base? I personally don't think Stadium's incorrect mechanics make too much of a difference to playing Stadium. I think most of the 1st gen players who aren't playing Stadium would just rather play RBY.
This is what I targeted. The metagames certainly existed prior to PO. The playerbase is small now due to lack of true RBY, and I am mostly suggesting these tiers to be implemented now to speed up the process of adding tiers later on when real RBY arrives. Less work later on, which is when the player base will show some kind of growth.
I was not saying that NU/LC have never been played, I was just refering to the tiering "philosophy" in general, just pointing out that I'm not partial to automatically ban things from a tier just because they are slightly better than the rest or because they shape the metagame of said tier a bit more than the other pokemons. I simply pointed this out as a response for the people that are too worried about having to test and adjust potential new metagames.
The people in Project NU have played NEU, and various different versions of tiers lower than DP NU. Should we make all of these metagames? Project NU's playerbase was/is larger than RBY2K's clearly we should add all the metagames ever made by Project NU? Just by the way, I know that Smogon doesn't have all the tiers ever invented (I lead LU that one tier that Smogon happens not to have). I'm just trying to say that RBY LC was never played in any good form and that we shouldn't add ever tier that someone suggests just because someone somewhere played it.
I personally think that only RBY OU should exist on the Server. If you want to find a RBY UU, NU, Ubers, or whatever match, then you should get some friends to play it. Just like NEU or other tiers that have only 5 users will actually bother to play.
Yes. I was one of the persons consulted when the tiers were established, and the tier list that I suggested was one based on an assumption of a ban of Wrap/Clamp. With those two legal, Dragonite and Cloyster should take the step up from BL to OU (not that BL exists yet on PO, even though it should...).
Well, all BL banlists have never been implemented as tiers on PO. Adv BL happened after a large group of people vouched and voted for it.
Yeah I forgot Dragonite and Victreebel as well. Even if BL has no effect in the PO RBY metagames, I think tiers should be accurate so that players can see what is good enough for OU and what to expect in OU battles. For this reason I'm partial to move Dnite, Cloy and Vict up to OU. If Articuno is OU, these three should totally be OU as well.
If the tiers are being based on ability instead of usage, then dragonite cloyster and victreebell should definitely be OU. What about tentacruel to OU? Tentacruel is actually a pretty good pokemon in the wrap meta, being faster than all the other standard wrappers (except for dragonite when boosted) and has swords dance to boost his wrap. I'd say he's definitely better than things like persian and articuno.
Not that I don't believe you, since I have a very poor memory, but if you could show me where, then I'll try to see about getting it made :o. I forget things a lot... so if I promised something but didn't deliver, I'm sorry.
Turns out you didn't promise anything explicitly, but here's the post I was referring to: http://pokemon-online.eu/forums/sho...U-BL-tier-list&p=199176&viewfull=1#post199176 I got the impression that the BL tier not being added was just a minor oversight that would be fixed ASAP from that post, maybe that wasn't what you meant though. Either way, a BL tier would be neat, and hey, better late than never.
My fault, again. Sorry. Just to make sure, is this the correct banlist "Alakazam, Articuno, Chansey, Exeggutor, Gengar, Golem, Haunter, Hypno, Jolteon, Jynx, Kadabra, Lapras, Persian, Rhydon, Slowbro, Snorlax, Starmie, Tauros, Zapdos" Everything on here should be OU, I used http://www.rby2k10.proboards.com/thread/273/official-tier-thread If it's all correct I'll push the changes, though you'll have to wait for a server restart for the actual change to occur :<
The tier list you're using as a base assumes that Wrapping moves are banned. I'd ban Dragonite, Cloyster and Victreebel, along with the ones you mentioned. Also, like Crystal pointed out, Kadabra and Haunter are allowed in the BL tier. Regardless, thanks! I appreciate the assistance.