[GSC] The potential of a purist GSC metagame

Discussion in 'Past Gens Discussion' started by Pokefan Bob, Dec 26, 2011.

  1. Pokefan Bob

    Pokefan Bob Member

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    Hi, everyone's favorite Pokemon master is back.

    As you probably have not noticed, I posted a suggestion for "purist metagame" rulesets. The concept behind it is to play Pokemon according to the rules of the Stadium/Colosseum games, rather than to make up our own metagames to whatever seems good.

    In the context of GSC, that would mean:
    No Mewtwo, Mew, Celebi, Ho-oh, Lugia
    No NYPC moves
    Sleep trapping/OHKOs/Evasion allowed
    Item clause, as well as the pre-existing Sleep, Freeze, Self-KO, and Species clauses
    (explanation here as to why the rules are the way they are)

    It would completely kill the stall and add a rather large luck element, but I would wager it would be fun and nostalgic back to the times when we played Link Cable battles with friends and didn't whine about things being overpowered. As with any ladder game, you would try to win as high of a percentage of time, so the luck element would even out over a large sample size.

    In the near future, I am going to host a best of 5 tournament (1 match played in each generation with purist rules), so I wanted to see what everyone thinks of the idea. I've already got a few team ideas myself.
     
  2. Jørgen

    Jørgen Sniper

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    Hey guys Bob is back.

    It wasn't the metagame itself that made Pokemon better when we were younger, it was the fact we were... younger, and generally more excitable and impressionable. Classic nostalgia. Replacing today's established competitive ruleset with Stadium's in-game rules and a no-NYPC clause (as per the OP) isn't going to recreate that, it's just going dumb down GSC. I guess it'd be okay as a gimmick meta, though.

    I agree with your point in the other thread about the ban-happy attitude new-gen players seem to have, though. Kids today seem to equate "developing a metagame" with "banning shit".
     
  3. Pokefan Bob

    Pokefan Bob Member

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    I never suggested replacing the meta completely. I'm just suggesting having a purist meta as an option alongside the standard meta. Obviously, I'm not suggesting getting rid of the standard meta that has been around for 10 years just cause I feel like it.

    If you consider RBY a neanderthal metagame, then sure, this metagame would be "dumb" because games would be more spontaneous and more prediction and luck based. However, there would actually be more factors involved in the metagame. It's actually quite easy to make a GSC standard meta team - All 6 Pokemon@leftovers: Rest/Recover, 3 other moves.

    Anyway, there is much more need for a purist metagame than there is for UU metas, even if it is as a complete gimmick. Personally I'd like to see it tested out and that's why I'm going to run a tournament.

    I have a prediction that Item Clause will revert some of the natural balance disrupted by the inclusion of OHKO moves. It's much harder to pull off a Rest Talk OHKO strategy without Leftovers on everything, and the absence of Leftovers also makes direct attacking more relevant. Evasion moves have already been shown to have minimal effect on the GSC meta from when people tested them out many years ago.

    The NYPC move clause has nothing to do with the effect of NYPC moves on the metagame. It has to do with the fact that you can't replicate your team without using Gameshark since NYPC is defunct. As a "Pokemon Battle Simulator", it makes sense to only include Pokemon that you can obtain via a cartridge game without cheating. There's only so many Event Pokemon out there and once the event over, the window of opportunity to obtain the Pokemon is gone.
     
  4. M Dragon

    M Dragon Active Member

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    As an option alongside the standard meta, it could work.
    However, I completely disagree with the item clause. If the point is a purist metagame, why would you restrict the use of the same item in more than 1 poke? Also I cant see an item clause working in GSC, since there are like 2/3 viable items
     
  5. Pokefan Bob

    Pokefan Bob Member

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    IMO, Item Clause is almost as important as Species Clause. Every game I've ever played, whether it be Stadium, or any games with Battle Towers, all of them have Item Clause.

    Also, there's a lot of viable items. Aside from the obvious Leftovers, Miracle Berry, Mint Berry, and Thick Club, there's things like Quick Claw, Brightpowder, Scope Lens, Focus Band, and the type power up moves (although they only increase 10%).

    Knowing how to best use those items in order to achieve the highest winning percentage takes a decent amount of skill. To say otherwise is silly.

    I'm leaning toward taking the NYPC ban off, but I just want to hear people's opinion on that matter. I'm personally opposed to NYPC moves, but I think most people think that they belong, if only cause they are already used to them.
     
  6. borat

    borat Member

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    Not really. People are going to settle on a standard.

    Snorlax will be with leftovers 100% of the time. The only major change I can see taking place is... thief skarm??? Thief other shit? All trying to take lefties from lax.

    Comparing item clause to species clause is idiotic. Where's the correlation with the even more moronic "move clause"?
     
  7. チャンピオンワタル

    チャンピオンワタル HYPER BEAM!

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    【天龍神】 ワタル
    I am personally interested in the establishment of this metagame. It would truly be a magnificent sight to behold the power and dominance of one-hit KO moves, the best moves in Generation II, which have, for many years, been stripped of their recognition as such due to their lack of use as a result of their banishment.

    I believe that it is about time for the world to witness the true, frightening power of Fissure, Guillotine and Horn Drill in Generation II. I have seen the power of such moves countless times throughout my Generation II Pokémon battling career myself, as such powers were once held by my very own hands. But is is deeply regrettable that, as a result of the omnipresence of the OHKO Clause, my fellow Pokémon trainers have been unable to share my experiences even after twelve years of Generation II's existence.
     
  8. Hobbes2

    Hobbes2 Aren't I dead or something

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    lol we use these in the in game battle tower, lock on / mind reader + ohko move gg GG

    seriously though, i guess a tier like this would be interesting. or even better, just make a streetpkmn tier. let us do anything. ANYTHING
     
  9. zeroality

    zeroality Artificial Insanity

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    Oh, when I posted in response to the thread in Pokemon Server I didn't even think about OHKO/Evasion.

    I don't think we want OHKO moves allowed in GSC (or any of the other gens really). I'll not get into a debate about the RNG on Pokemon Online but I know that before M Dragon and the rest of Indigo Plateau finally convinced coyotte to ban OHKO moves in GSC, one of the top ladder teams was a OHKO team.

    I had the misfortune of facing it myself, and OHKO is ridiculously successful in GSC. It seems to hit more often than not and it's extremely difficult to counter - if not impossible. All you can do is sit there and watch them OHKO you, or use it yourself and try to OHKO them first.

    I'm open to the idea of adding a "purist" metagame but OHKO (and to a lesser extent, Evasion) are two things in their own class and I know the majority of competitive players regard those as being automatically banned from competitive play.
     
  10. Pokefan Bob

    Pokefan Bob Member

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    So you're open to the idea of a purist metagame that isn't purist? If you're going to have a purist metagame, OHKO's and evasion must be added.

    Nobody said that the "official" Smogon rules of GSC have to change, but there needs to be an additional purist tier on top of that.

    As for the idea of it being competitive or not, I'm going to run a tournament, so it will be competitive, whether or not people regard it as a complete gimmick. I'm not saying that the community should accept OHKOs and evasion in their standard play.

    I'm just saying it should be an option. At worst, it's a fun gimmick. At best, it's a completely fresh, alternative metagame.