Pokémon online accesibility

Discussion in 'Simulator Suggestions' started by sanslash332, Nov 25, 2011.

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  1. sanslash332

    sanslash332 New Member

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    Hi,

    I represent primalblind, a community of hispanic gamers that have some vicion problems, ranging from impaired vision to complete blindness.

    In order to use the computers, we need external tools called screen readers, such as JAWS for windows (the most famous of them), Voiceover in mac, orca in linux, etc.

    Problem is, these screen readers are quite powerful and compatible with lots of programs, including the old netbattle pokemon battle simulators and shoddy battle 1 (2 doesn't allow to use swin java, the keystone for accesibility)

    Then, our concerning is the fact that screen readers, at least in windows, are unable to read anything from the pokemon online game, making impossible for us to completely enjoy that program.

    Then, our petition is: can you do something so we could enjoy this game?

    Through some research, we have found that the problem originates in the program root, and it's not the programming, but is the qt libraries.

    Considering their nature, these libraries don't directly offer an accesibility support, so it's few what can be done from that side.

    What can be done with the qt libraries is that, inside them , exist functions and external libraries to connect to the windows sapi platform, which is the one that allows to use voices for the reading of texts at loud voice.

    Then, the idea is that you can add the game a reading of the messages and all the menus at loud voice, through a voice that could be chosen by the user, previously installed in the system.

    Besides that, key combinations (keystrokes) should be added to allow navigation in the menus, windows, through battles logs and chat messages and for using the team builder, etc.

    Anyway, I hope you consider this petition; I'm sure lots of people will be thankful for that.

    By the way, if the game would have been done with libraries able to communicate directly with the MSAA, accesibility could be up to 20 times easier ^^

    Just to finish, thank you.


    Best wishes,

    Sandl Okino,
    Galor Jelius,
    Rosalamala,
    Primal blind team.
     
  2. Mystra

    Mystra Active Member

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    Shouldn't Qt have some accessibility features? Although considering some thing in PO are done with pictures which usually don't have a focus…

    I blame cojo :}
     
  3. sanslash332

    sanslash332 New Member

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    Yes, QT should have accesibility features, but them don't habe nothing!

    For example, with win32, .net platform, or jaba, is very simple turn accesible one application, but jaws in po, only can read the tittle window, lol.

    can you find a solution to this problem?

    we want play this game with the 5 generation of pokemon; in netbattle only have the 3 generation.

    well...
    waiting you...

    Bye
     
  4. coyotte508

    coyotte508 Well-Known Member Administrator Server Owner Administrator Server Owner

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    Hello,

    First of all sorry for not answering earlier, I just noticed this now (I was absent for around 3 months, came back mid december).

    Actually Qt has an interface for accessibility: http://developer.qt.nokia.com/doc/qt-4.8/qaccessible.html

    That means that with some changes it'd be possible to make PO accessible. I'll try to work out something, but for now I'm working on another part of PO. When I have time I'll look into it, or maybe another dev will before me.
     
  5. Mystra

    Mystra Active Member

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    I need someone who has some accessibility tools installed. I've added some code inside TeamBuilder itself and would like to know whether anything changed at all. It's not completely done at the moment because… UIs are created in the code which is a pain to navigate in.
     
  6. Lamperi

    Lamperi I see what you did there

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    Note: There is no accessibility support in the Cocoa version. This is planned for Qt 4.8.




    derp. Says unknown on everything for each button :P

    https://bugreports.qt.nokia.com/browse/QTBUG-16604

    -> postpone to Qt 5.


    Mac users might as well start using Windows / Wine version of PO if they want accessibility.
     
    Last edited: Jan 4, 2012
  7. Mystra

    Mystra Active Member

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    No Mac love, I see (O.o)
     
  8. coyotte508

    coyotte508 Well-Known Member Administrator Server Owner Administrator Server Owner

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  9. sanslash332

    sanslash332 New Member

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    Hello,

    First, thanx for the work in the accesibility part of PO ^^

    Next.... I can test the current accesibility in po, because i use JAWS for windows, but i don't have any vision support in case that i need support to can arrive to the accesible menus.

    To test the accesible build ¿i need compile it? or the build with accesibility updates currently are compiled.

    I repeat... thanx, very thanx for the work in this part ^^

    And sorry for not answer earlier u.u


    Regards,

    PrimalBlind Team.

    edit:

    if you want, you can test this screenReaderApi:
    https://skydrive.live.com/?cid=b5582bae5cd29043&id=B5582BAE5CD29043!628

    With this API, you can directly interact with screenReaders or speech systems, like JAWS, NVDA, Window eyes and systemAccess (screen Readers) and Sapi and (im not secure) speechdispatcher (speechSystems).

    Well,... this can use for example, to send a message to current active screenReader (the api autodetecs its) like in a battle, the current hp and status of your pokemon after to press a keystroke.

    OK ^^ thanx for all, bye ^^
     
    Last edited: Jan 5, 2012
  10. coyotte508

    coyotte508 Well-Known Member Administrator Server Owner Administrator Server Owner

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    I just uploaded new client: http://sourceforge.net/projects/pogeymon-online/files/Pokemon-Online-Setup.exe/download

    It should be ready in one hour or so, wait one hour before downloading it. (Otherwise you may download old client)

    Normally you should have accessible menu. Otherwise you can enter the teambuilder with space bar, or go online with tab + space bar.

    Please keep us informed! If it doesn't work it seems we will have to install accessiblity software to test it ourselves.
     
  11. sanslash332

    sanslash332 New Member

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    Hello,

    Well, i tested the uploaded version, and these are my results:

    The accesibility tool that i used, was JAWS for Windows, version 12.0

    Windows XP professional edition, SP3

    Well.... in the main window, JAWS can read the main 4 options and navigate throw them, using arrows keys, or the tab key.

    When you enter to the go online option (pressing space bar after select its) in the new window, jaws was unable to read any stuff...

    The exit option its OK (lol xddd) and in the teamBuilder, jaws can read some stuff.

    For example, you can navigate throw the diferent slots of the trainer tab, but you can't complete them. When you change to the team tab, when you select a pokemon slot, the jaws is unable to read nothing.

    hmmmm in the main window, the menuBar, is unaccesible.

    And... for finish, the jaws not recognise the kind of control that is selected; you have to guess the type of it... for example button, TabPage, dropDown Button, checkBox, comboBox, etc ^^

    Well, these are all.... i can't navigate throw more options, to try test it...

    Well, thanx for the all work, we wait more updates in this area :P

    Regards,

    PrimalBlind team ^^

    ¡bye!
     
  12. coyotte508

    coyotte508 Well-Known Member Administrator Server Owner Administrator Server Owner

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    Okay. Well, the teambuilder is being completely redone, once it's completed we will give the list of all the shortcuts and a lot of stuff would be accessible. The changes are going to be for next release, so it's likely going to be at least one month. But we may need you to test some stuff in advance, do you have any e-mail?

    Of course in the meantime someone can work on the current version so maybe you'll have an update faster, but i'm working on the next version!
     
  13. sanslash332

    sanslash332 New Member

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    ¡perfect!

    Of course, I have an e-mail xddd... I sent it to you via PM ^^

    hmmm one doubt

    in the source, wich are the files where you put the accesibility code?

    To try rebiew it ^^...

    and... about to the go online window and battle window...
    How many accesible are these parts?

    In the current version, i can't test a battle, because the online window is not accessible. and obviously, is impossible to find a oponent to start a battle xd.

    Well... Also, hthe credits is not accessible.

    OK ^^

    regards for all ^^

    bye!
     
  14. coyotte508

    coyotte508 Well-Known Member Administrator Server Owner Administrator Server Owner

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    I tried to make the battle window accessible. About the go online window, here is what you do:

    The first focused widget is the server list. So if you press arrow up/down you navigate through the server list. If you want to connect to the main server, basically, wait a bit all servers are loaded, press arrow down once, press Alt + C to connect. (Later on, you can use Alt +C to connect directly to last server you connected to).

    Then you get to the client part. To find a battle, press alt + F. Now the find battle window is open. You should be able to navigate through the options / buttons to find battle.

    Well tell me if you can do these, but anyway i'll really work on accessibility for next release.

    Also, for example in src/Teambuilder/menu.cpp, you can see some code with ->setAccessibleName(...).
     
  15. talasir

    talasir New Member

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    Hi. My name is Claudio Saez, I'm from Spain, am blind and sometimes cooperate with Primal Blind.
    First of all, I want to thank all your efforts to make this game accessible, it's really pleasant to have some games in which one may play with sigted people.
    I've tried the game with two screen readers, Jaws 13 and NVDA, and I got more or less the same results as Sandl. The screen readers recognize the widgets in the starting menu, and in the TeamBuilder one, but they can't read the menu bar, nor other items apart from the menus.
    I tried what you explained and this is what I found. I chose the go online option, and the game connected properly. A friend of mine says on the screen there are some drawings with words beneath (I suppose those are the pokemon) and some texts on the screen as battle, player 1 and so, but written in spanish instead of english. If I press Alt +f, a beep is played, but if I press Alt + b, which is the usual spanish hotkey to find someting, no beep is played. Anyhow I can't get any more information spoken by the screen readers once I've connected.
    Thanks again, and i look forward to receiving further news.
    Claudio Saez.
     
  16. sanslash332

    sanslash332 New Member

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    First, sorry for resurrect this old thread, but... i think that is not nesesary create a new topic for talk about this same thing.

    My question is... witch new features habe PO in the new versions about the accesibility?

    I tried the last version, but i can't use the program with jaws.

    could you work in the accesibility of po?
    you promise that the version 2 of PO habe more accesibility features, at least enable a blind person have a battle.

    well, sorry for the poor english xP

    thanx,

    Sandl
     
  17. coyotte508

    coyotte508 Well-Known Member Administrator Server Owner Administrator Server Owner

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    Well yeah...

    I didn't have as much time as I wanted to, and I saw that Qt 5 would have the accessibility framework overhauled, so I wanted to wait for Qt 5 to be out before working on it. (current is Qt 4.8, but next version will be Qt 5)

    Sorry for not having accessibility at the moment!
     
  18. zeroality

    zeroality Artificial Insanity

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    I'm curious - this is unrelated to simulator development - but how are the site, wiki, and forums in terms of accessibility for the vision impaired?

    I am one of the web developers here and I'd like to ensure that you guys have access to everything. If there are issues, they shouldn't be difficult to resolve.
     
  19. sanslash332

    sanslash332 New Member

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    OK, don't worry!

    Thanx to you for remember this feature :3

    We wait more for the next release of PO, when it uses QT5 ^^

    ^^ for now we can use the jaba an html based pokemon simulator (your oponent xd) showdown. :3

    Thanx, we still waiting for you :P

    edit:

    o, sorry @zeroality. i didn't see your post before jeje ^^.

    Well... for me, the website is very accessible using jaws for windows and IE8, or firefox11 (yea... y have to use newer firefox or chrome, but... i have jaws10, that is not compatible with chrome, or IE9 or IE10... i need update u.u)

    In the mainPage is easy find the quicklinks in the menus (the headings for them are a good help for navigation) and navigate throw the diferent news its so easy :P

    In the case of the wiki... well, it have the comon format of wikis, separating each section with a heading of level 2 for the tittles of each part :P.... is great.

    hmmm... one idea is that you can add a navigation marks to the main site, for the main sections of the website. The start of the main Menu, the start of news, the start of download section, and other for the foodnote :P

    For the rest... i can't say nothing; the VBulleting forums are completely accesible, ofcourse, i'm posting here xD... and... well the guides are readables with jaws :P

    If i found a problem with the accesibility of webpage, i tell to you :3

    thanx for worring about the accesibility of website. :3

    thanx for all.

    Bye!
     
    Last edited: Aug 3, 2012
  20. zeroality

    zeroality Artificial Insanity

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    Great! I will look into adding the navigation marks. Thank you for the feedback.

    We are working on getting a web client out which will also use Java and HTML. We planned this before Showdown came out but the project was delayed until now. Hopefully you'll be able to use that in the near future.
     
  21. Dånte

    Dånte Member

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    On a related note, colorblind individuals have problems identifying status infliction on the pokeballs because the current default themes all use tinted pokeballs instead of actual icons overlaying the pokeballs like in the old default theme Dratini Dreams. Do you think it would be possible for PO to readopt the Status icons of Dratini Dreams on all of the newer default themes to help those who are both completely and partially color blind?

    This would help users who do not know how to change the status icons themselves.
     
  22. sanslash332

    sanslash332 New Member

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    OK, i'm wait your webclient for PO ^^ if it uses only tools such as Basically Jaba, HTML and php (not flash, please) it can works correctly with screen readers :P

    also, ofcourse we are waiting the desktop version with the accesibility features of QT5 ^^


    Thanx for your work and your interest in make PO enable for all cynd of people! thanx!
     
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